This is a great conversation, and I am hyped to learn more about this period in television that mostly passed me by (because I am old -- I remember thinking how cringey these second-screen and social things were, but was never tempted to join in). OTOH, I certainly see these night-of engagement things still drifting past my twitter feed, like actors or showrunners trying to get hype going about livetweeting episodes (and trying to navigate the bi-coastal timezones while doing so). I follow Shaun Cassidy and Alison Tolman, just to name a couple of randos, and they would do this for New Amsterdam and Emergence (IIRC). That makes the livetweet thing seem directed at olds like me, even if I actually have no interest in following along that way, so I wonder who the audience is supposed to be. Maybe it's really the other way around -- trying to get these folks' social media followers watching night-of, rather than giving watchers a way to engage.
Great examples and interesting that they're both from broadcast. My sense is that conventional networks were always more invested in these live-oriented initiatives because their model relied on it more than even basic and especially premium cable.
I think your assessment is spot on: it's less about creating the space for meaningful engagement and more about convincing as many people to tune in live. At various points, both Twitter and networks/studios would advise and teach showrunners or actors how to build interest in live-tweeting and there's probably lingering energy around that these days, even as it's less widespread.
I feel like there’s a dimension to about the value to the individuals themselves - social media followings are something actors also use as a way to position themselves, and if they can take followers with them from project to project that is technically to their benefit.
The turn from Twitter to Instagram for celebrities did sort of separate this logic from “social viewing,” but the echoes are still there.
As a 55 year old, I suppose I'm just grateful I've been part of any of this at all. I will say that AV Club was hugely important to my tv viewing/commenting/engagement for many of the reasons mentioned in your discussion. Likewise, I am now obsessed with Letterboxd for similar reasons. That said, Twitter still remains an excellent source of amusement and connection for the reality shows I can't help but love.
All to say, that social
TV remains quite important to me and the communities that have flourished because of it. But again, as an old, maybe that's more true of Gen X than I realize?
Since you mentioned, can I ask how you use Letterboxd? Are you reading other people's reviews, primarily using it to log your own habits, or something else? I love the interface and do log my stuff, but I also find I'm just mostly following critics' whose full reviews I'll read anyway. Just curious!
I feel very lucky because I joined in 2017. I was able to log and rate most films I've seen. With that knowledge, I made a lot of lists some of which gained popularity. I started reviewing every new film I watched. I respond to all comments on my reviews and lists. Because of this, I developed a solid community whose reviews, lists, polls, and games I participate in. I pay a small amount to be a Pro member which gives me access to all my stats for each year and other coolness.
I find the film community there to be very active and engaged. But, as with all things, the experience is based on taking the time to develop relationships with those you actually enjoy interacting with.
Their notification system is such that if you like or comment on a review or list, you'll get alerted to responses which is exactly why I like forums like this one.
Feel free to check out my page there, I go by the same user name: StormofCuteness.
Thank you for sharing! It's a great point about investing time. Paying for Pro is sort of like paying to comment here, which I think is an ultimately beneficial characteristic of the community-building. You're getting the people who really care.
Great interview. I got into Scandal a few seasons late, and by then the tweet along aspect was already starting to fall away -- either some of the principles stopped participating as much or they just had less to say, and the energy wasn't really there. But maybe it was never for me. I always found the StorySynch type of things embarrassing. I already feel bad if I'm multi-tasking and have my computer open, I don't want it ENCOURAGED.
Anyone who knows younger people know exactly why Cory's students would find tweeting during the Oscars embarrassing? Is it because of the format and we should be doing that on Instagram or TikTok, or talking about the Oscars at all?
I'll share! It was, literally, the frequency in which I tweeted? Which, again, was like 12-15 tweets across the *entire* telecast. I used to send that many during one act of a scripted show!
To an extent, they view Twitter as a more "professionalized" space, not somewhere you might just be riffing with friends (or "friends").
Oh wow, I remember following Cory way back in the day - I think I even contributed something to TV Surveillance. Thank you for the interview! I'm really looking forward to checking out this book. [Funnily enough, my hold on Television's Spatial Capital arrived at my library, so I'm generally looking forward to a few weeks of Academic TV Books].
Otherwise, I don't want to rehash my previous comments on this blog about engaging in small dedicated spaces and communities (like this Substack - which, more often than not, I find myself commenting on a week or two late...) but that's really where my 'live' reactions go at this point.
I'm in a paid Slack for the (former) Storm/LOST podcast, where folks thread their reactions (to avoid spoilers) to anything and everything (e.g., movies or shows, in real time or retrospective thoughts) in a #now-watching channel. Of course, these channels are all super linear and disappear after the whole Slack hits 10K messages, so everything feels even more ephemeral. I'm also in a free Discord (also LOST-related) where we watch a show together 'live' weekly, but that isn't tied to new appointment viewing. We're watching Netflix's Dark (a show that ended in 2021) and did Twin Peaks earlier this year.
I do think certain kinds of semi-oldschool engagement is colliding with newer social media spaces (RuPaul's Drag Race still uses hashtags on the show pretty liberally, which I imagine is more for IG than Twitter). And when something drops for binging, my partner will let me know we need to finish New Show X ASAP to avoid an increasing amount of spoilers filtering into her awareness through Reels.
I don't really know where that leaves me. While I have little interest in more GOT content, I am kind of looking forward to HotD if only because I am excited about being there at 9PM on a Sunday when (presumably) it will air for everyone; maybe I'll even Live Tweet about it!
Hi John! Hope you're well. These Slack and Discord examples are *awesome* and a great way to think about bringing some of the Social TV ideas into this generation. I'm in a few that are sports-related and it's a similar thing where people are sending live reactions to games, often times different ones happening simultaneously, that it's both fun and dizzying to try to keep track of what's going on.
I love this idea of watching a show together live via a platform like this. Care to share the Discord link?! 🤓
Great to hear from you! I recently finished up my PhD in neuroscience focused on media about neurodevelopmental disabilities; I've always felt that a reason I went down this path is because of some combo of theorizing too much about LOST online and most of 2009-2013 TV Twitter/Academic TV Twitter :). So, thanks for that! Hope you're well too.
Otherwise, one area where this kind of social engagement is happening a lot too is through Patreon-driven Discord (and Slack) communities (e.g., for podcasts like Buffering The Vampire Slayer). And happy to share the Discord link: https://discord.gg/DfaPWcss
I remember seeing these sticker things pop up on my Twitter feed a decade ago, and IIRC one of the main reasons I never got into them is that I watched so much TV that it's slightly embarrassing and I didn't want to let people know about it.
Also, as someone who lived in Europe, I was also not a big fan of the live tweeting era. If there was any slightly big TV show I watched, I had to avoid Twitter until I saw the episode sometime the following day.
Not surprising that the mailed stickers deal didn't last too long. It's such an unsustainable 2010s tech company idea. But I did know, and interview, folks who got them!
On the flip side--in political campaigns we still use the sticker idea to drive engagement with our email lists. It works! People give, get a sticker, then do the give some more. I'm not sure what the end goal was with TV shows but I get the logic of why it might work.
And the check-in companies *loved* to push integration with other platforms onto users. They wanted you to share it on Facebook!
Great point about geography. I mention early in the book that this is a fundamentally US story, but a lot of the early experiments with two-screen experiences came from outside the States. But yeah, trying to live-tweet when you're in a different time zone is madness.
I enjoy the social aspect of TV in terms of reading reviews and comments after the fact, like in AV Club or of course here, but I would never want to be looking at something or Tweeting about something while watching. I personally can't multitask at all, and much of the pleasure of any media consumption for me is tied up in the idea of being fully immersed in it with no distractions. Lights dimmed, no talking, no interruptions.
Well, this brings me back. That was definitely the height of my Twitter/TV presence and yes, I used GetGlue. To me, who lived abroad at the time and had to get shows through, uh, alternative means, it provided a physical connection to something that felt ephemeral and afar.
As a person who dislikes stickers in laptops/notebooks/etc… I still have them at my parents’, exactly as they were delivered.
The other thread picked up from here, and unsure how much of how media discourse has evolved/devolved is that I’m less interested in the social media of it and rather read recaps (like the ones provided by Episodic Medium!) and books (Sepinwall/MSZ/Nussbaum, and soon Barker’s) that are doing great long form work. Tools like Letterboxd and TrakTV are mostly for my own bookkeeping than to interact with my community.
The other side of this, is a lot of the people I met back in ‘09-‘12 I still discuss media with, just directly through text instead of a social media platform.
I was watching TV via time-shifting very early on--it started when my family and I were desperately trying to keep up with Deep Space 9 Dominion war arc via VCR when episodes would be preempted late into the night because of the Red Wings playoff runs and the trend just continued from there--so anything that encouraged "live" interaction never clicked with me because I was already late. Places like AV Club, message boards were godsends in that regards--even though I was late to the conversation I was able to participate somewhat before the threads would die down. (Well, sometimes, some of those AVC comment threads would balloon so quickly it was near impossible to keep up.)
It did always seem like studios were chasing Sharknados success--which if I remember right wasn't planned in anyway just organic engagment--I remember that it dominated my twitter feed that night and subsequent airings got better ratings than the premiere. It came pretty early enough in the social media TV craze people thought it might actually be the norm but just proved impossible to replicate.
This is a great conversation, and I am hyped to learn more about this period in television that mostly passed me by (because I am old -- I remember thinking how cringey these second-screen and social things were, but was never tempted to join in). OTOH, I certainly see these night-of engagement things still drifting past my twitter feed, like actors or showrunners trying to get hype going about livetweeting episodes (and trying to navigate the bi-coastal timezones while doing so). I follow Shaun Cassidy and Alison Tolman, just to name a couple of randos, and they would do this for New Amsterdam and Emergence (IIRC). That makes the livetweet thing seem directed at olds like me, even if I actually have no interest in following along that way, so I wonder who the audience is supposed to be. Maybe it's really the other way around -- trying to get these folks' social media followers watching night-of, rather than giving watchers a way to engage.
Great examples and interesting that they're both from broadcast. My sense is that conventional networks were always more invested in these live-oriented initiatives because their model relied on it more than even basic and especially premium cable.
I think your assessment is spot on: it's less about creating the space for meaningful engagement and more about convincing as many people to tune in live. At various points, both Twitter and networks/studios would advise and teach showrunners or actors how to build interest in live-tweeting and there's probably lingering energy around that these days, even as it's less widespread.
I feel like there’s a dimension to about the value to the individuals themselves - social media followings are something actors also use as a way to position themselves, and if they can take followers with them from project to project that is technically to their benefit.
The turn from Twitter to Instagram for celebrities did sort of separate this logic from “social viewing,” but the echoes are still there.
Yeah, feels like we're more likely to see them do a random shared IG Live about their new show than conventional live-tweeting.
As a 55 year old, I suppose I'm just grateful I've been part of any of this at all. I will say that AV Club was hugely important to my tv viewing/commenting/engagement for many of the reasons mentioned in your discussion. Likewise, I am now obsessed with Letterboxd for similar reasons. That said, Twitter still remains an excellent source of amusement and connection for the reality shows I can't help but love.
All to say, that social
TV remains quite important to me and the communities that have flourished because of it. But again, as an old, maybe that's more true of Gen X than I realize?
Since you mentioned, can I ask how you use Letterboxd? Are you reading other people's reviews, primarily using it to log your own habits, or something else? I love the interface and do log my stuff, but I also find I'm just mostly following critics' whose full reviews I'll read anyway. Just curious!
I feel very lucky because I joined in 2017. I was able to log and rate most films I've seen. With that knowledge, I made a lot of lists some of which gained popularity. I started reviewing every new film I watched. I respond to all comments on my reviews and lists. Because of this, I developed a solid community whose reviews, lists, polls, and games I participate in. I pay a small amount to be a Pro member which gives me access to all my stats for each year and other coolness.
I find the film community there to be very active and engaged. But, as with all things, the experience is based on taking the time to develop relationships with those you actually enjoy interacting with.
Their notification system is such that if you like or comment on a review or list, you'll get alerted to responses which is exactly why I like forums like this one.
Feel free to check out my page there, I go by the same user name: StormofCuteness.
Thank you for sharing! It's a great point about investing time. Paying for Pro is sort of like paying to comment here, which I think is an ultimately beneficial characteristic of the community-building. You're getting the people who really care.
Great interview. I got into Scandal a few seasons late, and by then the tweet along aspect was already starting to fall away -- either some of the principles stopped participating as much or they just had less to say, and the energy wasn't really there. But maybe it was never for me. I always found the StorySynch type of things embarrassing. I already feel bad if I'm multi-tasking and have my computer open, I don't want it ENCOURAGED.
Anyone who knows younger people know exactly why Cory's students would find tweeting during the Oscars embarrassing? Is it because of the format and we should be doing that on Instagram or TikTok, or talking about the Oscars at all?
I'll share! It was, literally, the frequency in which I tweeted? Which, again, was like 12-15 tweets across the *entire* telecast. I used to send that many during one act of a scripted show!
To an extent, they view Twitter as a more "professionalized" space, not somewhere you might just be riffing with friends (or "friends").
Thanks for the reply!
Oh wow, I remember following Cory way back in the day - I think I even contributed something to TV Surveillance. Thank you for the interview! I'm really looking forward to checking out this book. [Funnily enough, my hold on Television's Spatial Capital arrived at my library, so I'm generally looking forward to a few weeks of Academic TV Books].
Otherwise, I don't want to rehash my previous comments on this blog about engaging in small dedicated spaces and communities (like this Substack - which, more often than not, I find myself commenting on a week or two late...) but that's really where my 'live' reactions go at this point.
I'm in a paid Slack for the (former) Storm/LOST podcast, where folks thread their reactions (to avoid spoilers) to anything and everything (e.g., movies or shows, in real time or retrospective thoughts) in a #now-watching channel. Of course, these channels are all super linear and disappear after the whole Slack hits 10K messages, so everything feels even more ephemeral. I'm also in a free Discord (also LOST-related) where we watch a show together 'live' weekly, but that isn't tied to new appointment viewing. We're watching Netflix's Dark (a show that ended in 2021) and did Twin Peaks earlier this year.
I do think certain kinds of semi-oldschool engagement is colliding with newer social media spaces (RuPaul's Drag Race still uses hashtags on the show pretty liberally, which I imagine is more for IG than Twitter). And when something drops for binging, my partner will let me know we need to finish New Show X ASAP to avoid an increasing amount of spoilers filtering into her awareness through Reels.
I don't really know where that leaves me. While I have little interest in more GOT content, I am kind of looking forward to HotD if only because I am excited about being there at 9PM on a Sunday when (presumably) it will air for everyone; maybe I'll even Live Tweet about it!
Hi John! Hope you're well. These Slack and Discord examples are *awesome* and a great way to think about bringing some of the Social TV ideas into this generation. I'm in a few that are sports-related and it's a similar thing where people are sending live reactions to games, often times different ones happening simultaneously, that it's both fun and dizzying to try to keep track of what's going on.
I love this idea of watching a show together live via a platform like this. Care to share the Discord link?! 🤓
Great to hear from you! I recently finished up my PhD in neuroscience focused on media about neurodevelopmental disabilities; I've always felt that a reason I went down this path is because of some combo of theorizing too much about LOST online and most of 2009-2013 TV Twitter/Academic TV Twitter :). So, thanks for that! Hope you're well too.
Otherwise, one area where this kind of social engagement is happening a lot too is through Patreon-driven Discord (and Slack) communities (e.g., for podcasts like Buffering The Vampire Slayer). And happy to share the Discord link: https://discord.gg/DfaPWcss
I also wouldn't be a media professor without Lost. I suspect that are dozens of us!!
Thanks for the link. I'll have to check it out!
I remember seeing these sticker things pop up on my Twitter feed a decade ago, and IIRC one of the main reasons I never got into them is that I watched so much TV that it's slightly embarrassing and I didn't want to let people know about it.
Also, as someone who lived in Europe, I was also not a big fan of the live tweeting era. If there was any slightly big TV show I watched, I had to avoid Twitter until I saw the episode sometime the following day.
I had to close my laptop and walk around for a bit when that image of the physical stickers scrolled up in this article. How .... why ...
Not surprising that the mailed stickers deal didn't last too long. It's such an unsustainable 2010s tech company idea. But I did know, and interview, folks who got them!
On the flip side--in political campaigns we still use the sticker idea to drive engagement with our email lists. It works! People give, get a sticker, then do the give some more. I'm not sure what the end goal was with TV shows but I get the logic of why it might work.
And the check-in companies *loved* to push integration with other platforms onto users. They wanted you to share it on Facebook!
Great point about geography. I mention early in the book that this is a fundamentally US story, but a lot of the early experiments with two-screen experiences came from outside the States. But yeah, trying to live-tweet when you're in a different time zone is madness.
I enjoy the social aspect of TV in terms of reading reviews and comments after the fact, like in AV Club or of course here, but I would never want to be looking at something or Tweeting about something while watching. I personally can't multitask at all, and much of the pleasure of any media consumption for me is tied up in the idea of being fully immersed in it with no distractions. Lights dimmed, no talking, no interruptions.
"The peak of this micro-moment (let’s say 2011-2015ish) happened when they were in middle school, so it is truly history to them."
So these are grad students?
Well, this brings me back. That was definitely the height of my Twitter/TV presence and yes, I used GetGlue. To me, who lived abroad at the time and had to get shows through, uh, alternative means, it provided a physical connection to something that felt ephemeral and afar.
As a person who dislikes stickers in laptops/notebooks/etc… I still have them at my parents’, exactly as they were delivered.
The other thread picked up from here, and unsure how much of how media discourse has evolved/devolved is that I’m less interested in the social media of it and rather read recaps (like the ones provided by Episodic Medium!) and books (Sepinwall/MSZ/Nussbaum, and soon Barker’s) that are doing great long form work. Tools like Letterboxd and TrakTV are mostly for my own bookkeeping than to interact with my community.
The other side of this, is a lot of the people I met back in ‘09-‘12 I still discuss media with, just directly through text instead of a social media platform.
I was watching TV via time-shifting very early on--it started when my family and I were desperately trying to keep up with Deep Space 9 Dominion war arc via VCR when episodes would be preempted late into the night because of the Red Wings playoff runs and the trend just continued from there--so anything that encouraged "live" interaction never clicked with me because I was already late. Places like AV Club, message boards were godsends in that regards--even though I was late to the conversation I was able to participate somewhat before the threads would die down. (Well, sometimes, some of those AVC comment threads would balloon so quickly it was near impossible to keep up.)
It did always seem like studios were chasing Sharknados success--which if I remember right wasn't planned in anyway just organic engagment--I remember that it dominated my twitter feed that night and subsequent airings got better ratings than the premiere. It came pretty early enough in the social media TV craze people thought it might actually be the norm but just proved impossible to replicate.