So glad this show is being covered here! I read the book about a year ago, and was on the fence about checking out this new adaptation. (I didn't bother with the original 70s one, largely for the reasons you laid out above.)
I was a skeptical modern reader, but the novel surprised me with how fleshed-out its Japanese characters generally …
So glad this show is being covered here! I read the book about a year ago, and was on the fence about checking out this new adaptation. (I didn't bother with the original 70s one, largely for the reasons you laid out above.)
I was a skeptical modern reader, but the novel surprised me with how fleshed-out its Japanese characters generally seemed to be. The story definitely engages in some broad East/West dichotomies, but I'd say neither side of the cultural exchange is portrayed as wholly good or bad, and the primary arc of the piece does involve the European protagonist gaining a deeper understanding and appreciation for the people around him. At the same time, his own reputation gradually shifts from that of an uncivilized curiosity to a strange but honorable outsider -- particularly after he agrees to start bathing more than once a year!
It's still white savior adjacent, but that element is handled pretty well for the most part, and from this write-up, it sounds like the new show does even better on that front. Even on the page I was struck by the GOT-like intrigues and oblique threats punctuated by sudden outbursts of graphic violence, so I'm glad to hear that that part is coming across loud and clear in adaptation. I'll definitely have to find time in my schedule to check out at least these first couple episodes.
I came here comment on that. I and a few of my friends read Shogun in high school (early 00s), and had a big viewing party when we tracked down VHS tapes of the miniseries. So its been a while since I've read it, but my memory is it tilts toward romanticizing Japan as better than Europe. That has its own issues, but is perhaps a lesser and less common sin than the feared 'white guy becomes the bestest foreigner ever' trope. The arc is that Blackthorne comes expecting savages, and gets civilized by then - or at least, adopts their ways and is given a unique, proscribed role.
I just finished the book last night immediately before watching the episodes, and I'm not sure I totally agree that it romanticizes Japan. I think in some ways maybe it does, but there are also certainly times when the narrative is on Blackthorn's side, particularly when he's taken aback by how carelessly life can be treated (as mentioned in the review and deliberately highlighted early in both the show and book.)
I knew almost nothing about the book beyond the premise, the publication date, and the first trailer for the show, and went in expecting at least some level of problematic-ness, but didn't find that to be the case at all. It's thoughtful, nuanced, and just interested in everything about this period and the cultural forces involved.
I think he was saying the original miniseries romanticizes the Japanese (not necessarily the book). I'm not sure I agree with that assessment, but it certainly was (at the time) an amazing introduction to Japanese culture. Toranaga being played by Toshiro Mifune (one of the best actors ever) was a really big reason for its success.
I was referring to the book and the mini-series, but I remembered part of the book more than others (especially Blackthorne's conversion to Japan's standards of personal hygiene). I agree a/the key thing is that the book has an amazing amount of detail and interest in the period. Thanks for the context, everyone!
The mini-series does make a brief, significant change to the book's ending with a lot of implications for characterization and theme, and I wonder which way this production will go.
I've never read the novel or seen the 1980 miniseries but just from the first (long) episode this version doesn't agree with Blackthorn''s point of view that Europe is better or more advanced than Japan. The Portuguese guy just flat out tells him that Osaka is way more advanced than any European city and it's clear we're meant to agree. The word the Japanese use to refer to him is subtitled as "barbarian" to underline this. But at the same time the world of the Japanese is presented as extremely violent and dark. Having no idea what's coming next I'm find this approach really interesting
I agree. Everyone in the show views the “other” as a barbarian. I’m not sure they are wrong. Humanity is capable of great beauty and sophistication, but also immense cruelty and destruction-regardless of ethnicity. I’m looking forward to how the politics and scheming play out.
So glad this show is being covered here! I read the book about a year ago, and was on the fence about checking out this new adaptation. (I didn't bother with the original 70s one, largely for the reasons you laid out above.)
I was a skeptical modern reader, but the novel surprised me with how fleshed-out its Japanese characters generally seemed to be. The story definitely engages in some broad East/West dichotomies, but I'd say neither side of the cultural exchange is portrayed as wholly good or bad, and the primary arc of the piece does involve the European protagonist gaining a deeper understanding and appreciation for the people around him. At the same time, his own reputation gradually shifts from that of an uncivilized curiosity to a strange but honorable outsider -- particularly after he agrees to start bathing more than once a year!
It's still white savior adjacent, but that element is handled pretty well for the most part, and from this write-up, it sounds like the new show does even better on that front. Even on the page I was struck by the GOT-like intrigues and oblique threats punctuated by sudden outbursts of graphic violence, so I'm glad to hear that that part is coming across loud and clear in adaptation. I'll definitely have to find time in my schedule to check out at least these first couple episodes.
I came here comment on that. I and a few of my friends read Shogun in high school (early 00s), and had a big viewing party when we tracked down VHS tapes of the miniseries. So its been a while since I've read it, but my memory is it tilts toward romanticizing Japan as better than Europe. That has its own issues, but is perhaps a lesser and less common sin than the feared 'white guy becomes the bestest foreigner ever' trope. The arc is that Blackthorne comes expecting savages, and gets civilized by then - or at least, adopts their ways and is given a unique, proscribed role.
I just finished the book last night immediately before watching the episodes, and I'm not sure I totally agree that it romanticizes Japan. I think in some ways maybe it does, but there are also certainly times when the narrative is on Blackthorn's side, particularly when he's taken aback by how carelessly life can be treated (as mentioned in the review and deliberately highlighted early in both the show and book.)
I knew almost nothing about the book beyond the premise, the publication date, and the first trailer for the show, and went in expecting at least some level of problematic-ness, but didn't find that to be the case at all. It's thoughtful, nuanced, and just interested in everything about this period and the cultural forces involved.
I think he was saying the original miniseries romanticizes the Japanese (not necessarily the book). I'm not sure I agree with that assessment, but it certainly was (at the time) an amazing introduction to Japanese culture. Toranaga being played by Toshiro Mifune (one of the best actors ever) was a really big reason for its success.
I was referring to the book and the mini-series, but I remembered part of the book more than others (especially Blackthorne's conversion to Japan's standards of personal hygiene). I agree a/the key thing is that the book has an amazing amount of detail and interest in the period. Thanks for the context, everyone!
The mini-series does make a brief, significant change to the book's ending with a lot of implications for characterization and theme, and I wonder which way this production will go.
I've never read the novel or seen the 1980 miniseries but just from the first (long) episode this version doesn't agree with Blackthorn''s point of view that Europe is better or more advanced than Japan. The Portuguese guy just flat out tells him that Osaka is way more advanced than any European city and it's clear we're meant to agree. The word the Japanese use to refer to him is subtitled as "barbarian" to underline this. But at the same time the world of the Japanese is presented as extremely violent and dark. Having no idea what's coming next I'm find this approach really interesting
I agree. Everyone in the show views the “other” as a barbarian. I’m not sure they are wrong. Humanity is capable of great beauty and sophistication, but also immense cruelty and destruction-regardless of ethnicity. I’m looking forward to how the politics and scheming play out.