This was my 2nd favorite season of the series (the 1st one, perhaps from nostalgia, remains my fave).
Unlike Noel, I was grateful for the political discourse and overt recognition of abused wives and women. This is how conversations might begin and maybe even break through.
Or, if they don't, at least give hope to those of us who are trying to fight the toxicity of misogyny, racism, and anti-LGBTQIA+ legislation currently weaselling its way into states across the nation.
Juno Temple really blew me away is this. Dot isn't a character I've seen before, and I am grateful for her. She is about survival and trying her best to do good by those she loves. She stands in stark contrast to so many revenge narratives. What a relief to have a protagonist grounded by love, protection, and forgiveness.
One thing me loved about Dot is that, she initially seem like character we have seen before. This show has already delivered multiple kooky Minnesota-nice gals with murderous streak; Kirsten Dunst in season 2; angel-of-death nurse last season. So me figured Hawley was going to that well again, and instead we get most complex and sympathetic character this show has yet given us.
I know this is going to be an anti-consensus opinion but my reaction to this finale was pretty mixed trending towards negative. I didn't really like the weird structure. Noel in his recap says the Tillman ranch standoff stuff was resolved in the first third and then it was the epilogues. I felt like everything from last week was done in the first 10-15 minutes and then it was a series of epilogues. I'm sure Hawley or whoever thought they were being clever but I really would've preferred a more conventional route where most of the episode was occupied by a depiction of what unfolded at the ranch.
Of the three epilogues I had problems with the first two, especially the prison one. The one at the grave was nothing but clunky exposition. I guess a genuine "good guy" had to die and they drew straws and Farr lost, so they to tie up that loose end. I have similar problems to Noel in re: Roy and Lorraine in the prison scene. It was just too pandering and giving the audience exactly what they want. Not too mention as I'm an activist on issues around prisons and I really don't like the trope of prison rape or abuse being this funny or good thing if it happens to a bad person.
So it all comes down to the final scene with Ole Dorothy Scotty and hubby. This just barely worked for me. At times it made me think of Rick and Morty, where something like that could happen but they'd be so much more irreverent about how they reacted to the weird guy's attempted monologues. But in the end it won me over. It was just such a weird scene and such an unexpected ending. And I think it was smart that Ole interacted with the whole family and not just Dorothy. It made the juxtaposition so much more extreme
I will agree with you about the use of the "troph of prison rape and abuse." But this is in line with what Roy said about his admiration of prison life, the stronger over the weaker made sense to him. Turns out Lorraine has ways of using that to her advantage. Bullys got to bully and Roy is going to understand what that actually feels like. Lorraine is a bigger bully by virtue of having more money than Roy. She uses debts to encourage others to work for her.
What matters on how one defines weakness and strength. We can see this in the final scene of Bisquik. Joy and love can overcome. Some debts can be forgiven? Maybe?
I understood what they were saying thematically with Roy's fate, and the writing and Hamm certainly did a lot of work to make Tillman so utterly deserving of hate that it's hard to have sympathy for him no matter what befalls him. But the scene still played into this idea that prison is filled with horrible people like Roy and they treat each other horribly especially with systematic sexual abuse etc., an idea popularized by "The Shawshank Redemption" and "Oz". In reality prison is filled with tons of people who never killed anyone or did anything violent (You don't get to "mass" incarceration just locking up the iredeemables like Roy) and the vast majority of the abuse inside comes from guards and other staff. In fact, it would've rung more true if Lorraine had forgiven some prison guards their debts in exchange for being "exta-attentive" to Roy. They're the ones who have all the power inside
That go little bit hand in hand with Fargo's view of policing. This is really first time we see corrupt cops. Generally everyone from Colin Hanks' aspiring mailman in first season to Deputies Farr and Olmstead in this one are well-meaning folks who put on badge out of genuine desire to help, and that really not square with anything we know about policing in real life.
But me also understand that show needed way for Lorraine to turn tables on Roy, and prison was way to do that, and denying parole not really enough on that score.
You are correct there. It is a major reason why cops are truly scared about ending up in prison. They put other people there. And might be why there is a reluctance to find police officers guilty.
I understand this in a broader view. Roy starts out telling Lorraine he likes it there because in prison, there is the kind of sorting out where groups form and the stronger ones can rule over the weak ones. Lorraine turns that on him by letting him know he isn't the strongest one. She is. A woman! She is going to make sure he feels the Fear, Pain, Shame that he has meted out to women in his life. The worst thing a man like Roy Tillman can feel is being treated like he treated the women in his life.
And remember, he.was a powerful County Sheriff with over the top powers that made his constituents fear him. I'm thinking of the scene where he is taking Dot out of the hospital and the woman at the desk was truly afraid of him because he knew something about her and her loved ones that he was holding over her.
"Noel in his recap says the Tillman ranch standoff stuff was resolved in the first third and then it was the epilogues. I felt like everything from last week was done in the first 10-15 minutes and then it was a series of epilogues"
so... you agree with noel? the episode was like 43 minutes
1. if your complaint is that the ending is not cynical enough, eat something made with love and joy
2. Normally, threatening someone with the extra-judicial aspects of prison is low but
A. Roy opens by reveling in prison as a perfect society because he believes himself to be the Uber mensch. But like Hobbes, Loraine revels life in such a world to be nasty, brutish, and short because there is always a bigger threat. Roy despises the Leviathan that could have protected him and in the end it costs him
B. She admits to having no principles and is playing his game his way
As someone who is an absolute sucker for hot biscuits, I enjoyed the ending. I liked most of the episode and almost all of the season but didn't really think it was necessary for Witt to die. It was fun seeing Juno Temple get to do something besides dress in mini skirts (and not have much else to do) in Ted Lasso.
Before watching this episode I remembered Nikki Swango in Season 3 Fargo. Hawley had her killed before she could avenge Emmitt (or was it Roy). I was thinking I'd be angry if he did in Dot at the end but, there was that possibility. I was sad that it was Witt Farr. I agree it wasn't necessary but then again, someone had to go.
Even though they only have couple of scenes together, me did have nice little fantasy that things would end with Farr asking Olmstead out for cup of coffee after everything was said and done.
I get where people are coming from when they express surprise that Lorraine would now feel the need to be the force of vengeance for abused women, but I see it a bit differently. I think that she is exactly the kind of person who has no use for empathy as a general concept and only recognizes an issue when it touches them or someone they know well. She is like a politician who only acknowledges that gay people should have basic rights after they have a gay child.
I also doubt that she would extend her sympathies much beyond her own daughter-in-law. She just sees Roy Tillman as holding a debt that needs repayment, even when she is ostensibly collecting that repayment on behalf of someone who we see moments later extolling the virtues of debt forgiveness.
Thank you so much for your insightful and entertaining reviews this season! (Unlike most, I am one who actually enjoys reading your analysis and reactions *before* I watch an episode. Sacrilege, I know. Although it may limit suspense and surprise, I do not actually enjoy suspense, ha! I much prefer insight and understanding nuance, recognizing references.) You helped me enjoy this season far more than I would have, I deeply appreciate having such an informed, intelligent guide. **While I am handing out compliments, shout out to the casting director! What I may enjoy most about any Coen film is the care taken in casting even the smallest role. Fargo Season 5 lived up to that ethos in full - great cast, great performances!
I thought this was a solid finale to a mostly solid season. I don’t think I would rank it on the same level as S1 and S2, but probably on par overall with S3. (I have yet to watch S4, which I will get around to at some point)
The final action at the compound was good. I’m glad Dot got to shoot Tillman. Pretty pissed that Whit was killed. I guess Hawkey’s saying that the MAGA types are killing decency? I think I would have been happier overall with the show if Whit survived.
One thing I’ll say is that the numerous “cuts to black” during the final few minutes at the compound were kind of annoying.
I think in this episode I struggled most with Tillman. He went full cartoon - slicing, stabbing, swastika - the three S’s of over-the-top villainy! I know none of it was out of the blue and in a lot of ways were probably logical developments for that character in that situation, but I really think a little subtlety could have gone a long way here (much like our old friend Lars a few weeks ago).
I actually thought Lorraine’s final punishment for Tillman was pretty clever writing and got a good kick out of it.
I thought the whole final scene with Ole and the Lyon family was great. One of the highlights of the season. Noel articulated my thoughts pretty well. I’m actually surprised I liked it as much as I did, but I thought it was about as perfect an ending to the season as we could have hoped for. All four characters were hilarious (especially Ole) and even some of the sappier parts of the dialogue were at least well placed.
So yeah, I’m glad I was wrong with my prediction last week that we had seen the last of Munch.
Thanks for the reviews Noel! It’s been fun reading along with them and the comments. I’ll definitely be back for another round of Fargo if Hawley ever gets to it.
You know, I feel like an actual Coens spin on this season would probably have Loraine be in Ole’s place at the end, calling in Indira’s debts instead of Dot’s, with the younger Lyonses trying their courtesy routine to save Indira and just bricking it because Loraine isn’t some whimsical man-child embodying the vague concept of debt, she is an actual debt collector. I feel like in that version, Indira would lose all her possessions, the Lyons would feel bad but big mama wouldn’t, so they’d just eat dinner and get on with their lives.
What I guess we get instead is… idk, a paean to the coalition-building power of contempt for vulgar men, with Loraine spiking the ball for the good guys? A vision of big business conservatives bringing belligerent fascists to heel instead of finding common ideological cause with them? This aired the day after the 2024 Iowa caucuses (if you’re reading this from the future -- yes, we should have done more), and suffice to say I think Loraine is more of a magical character than Ole Munch. She even personally lifts Indira up as a job creator! Fuckin Willy Wonka over here.
I have no idea why you’d go this saccharine with a franchise which is meant to pay tribute to the least sentimental of popular American filmmakers. They laugh for the same reasons Kafka laughed: because when faced with cruelty it’s that or crying. There isn’t much to be thankful for in those stories.
"I’m also wary of art that panders to my biases, and I can’t deny there were times in these episodes (including the finale) where I rolled my eyes at how hard Hawley and company were hitting their points."
I respect this. And generally, I agree. It's not that I think the show's message is off the mark, but there's enough rhetoric out there, and I prefer my art with a side of nuance. I want it to ask more of me than just reaffirming my beliefs.
But I'm not sure I felt that here. Neither Lyon nor Tillman felt like obvious Trump stand-ins, liberal boogeymen, or anything that hyperbolic. They represent opposite sides of American authoritarianism—Tillman by force, Lyon by finance. She may present herself as a conservative caricature, but she is much more in the neoliberal vein of picking people's pockets with full impunity. I think they both made great villains, and while I could quibble with the resolution that one is worse than the other, the house always wins, and the more I think about it, the more it seems obvious Tillman never stood a chance against her. I think you were on the money last week when you talked about debt being the primary theme of the season, and I think Hawley's politics here are more nuanced than he initially presents them. Just my take, of course.
The events supposedly happened in 2019. If the show starts around Halloween in 2019, and the climax occurs a few weeks or months later, the epilog occurs in late 2020 or early 2021, the first winter of COVID-19. Yet, there's no evidence of that. Surely, the prison would be on a lockdown. If the start is meant to be in the fall of 2018 and the climax is as late as early 2019, then there is no problem, as the epilog would happen in early 2020, just before COVID shuts things down.
So, the 2019 reference needs to refer to the climax, not the opening scenes, with those occurring in the height of winter 2018-2019.
Well I made some calls and I'm pretty sure this show wasn't based on true events at all, so I'm okay if this fictional reality didn't have a global pandemic.
I was trying to do that math too, and forgot that the season mostly took place circa Halloween. But Whit’s headstone did say he died in 2019, which would make the epilogues in late 2020. So, seemingly in a fictional world where COVID doesn’t exist (like the one everyone seems to live in now!).
Totally agree with Noel and the others here that while two of the epilogues felt unsatisfactory, Ole Munch and the biscuit was amazing. Juno Temple especially is so good in that scene, and I felt like it at least closed the loop on the Munch plot that has felt very tangential all season. Overall, this year has been a pretty great return to form, I’d say on par with Season 3 and a step behind 1 and 2.
Thanks Noel for the reviews and everyone for the great comments!
Pour one out for Deputy Farr. Shame to make an orphan of Furguson...err, Lucky.
That made me so sad!! I really liked him.
This was my 2nd favorite season of the series (the 1st one, perhaps from nostalgia, remains my fave).
Unlike Noel, I was grateful for the political discourse and overt recognition of abused wives and women. This is how conversations might begin and maybe even break through.
Or, if they don't, at least give hope to those of us who are trying to fight the toxicity of misogyny, racism, and anti-LGBTQIA+ legislation currently weaselling its way into states across the nation.
Juno Temple really blew me away is this. Dot isn't a character I've seen before, and I am grateful for her. She is about survival and trying her best to do good by those she loves. She stands in stark contrast to so many revenge narratives. What a relief to have a protagonist grounded by love, protection, and forgiveness.
One thing me loved about Dot is that, she initially seem like character we have seen before. This show has already delivered multiple kooky Minnesota-nice gals with murderous streak; Kirsten Dunst in season 2; angel-of-death nurse last season. So me figured Hawley was going to that well again, and instead we get most complex and sympathetic character this show has yet given us.
It was so refreshing.
I know this is going to be an anti-consensus opinion but my reaction to this finale was pretty mixed trending towards negative. I didn't really like the weird structure. Noel in his recap says the Tillman ranch standoff stuff was resolved in the first third and then it was the epilogues. I felt like everything from last week was done in the first 10-15 minutes and then it was a series of epilogues. I'm sure Hawley or whoever thought they were being clever but I really would've preferred a more conventional route where most of the episode was occupied by a depiction of what unfolded at the ranch.
Of the three epilogues I had problems with the first two, especially the prison one. The one at the grave was nothing but clunky exposition. I guess a genuine "good guy" had to die and they drew straws and Farr lost, so they to tie up that loose end. I have similar problems to Noel in re: Roy and Lorraine in the prison scene. It was just too pandering and giving the audience exactly what they want. Not too mention as I'm an activist on issues around prisons and I really don't like the trope of prison rape or abuse being this funny or good thing if it happens to a bad person.
So it all comes down to the final scene with Ole Dorothy Scotty and hubby. This just barely worked for me. At times it made me think of Rick and Morty, where something like that could happen but they'd be so much more irreverent about how they reacted to the weird guy's attempted monologues. But in the end it won me over. It was just such a weird scene and such an unexpected ending. And I think it was smart that Ole interacted with the whole family and not just Dorothy. It made the juxtaposition so much more extreme
I will agree with you about the use of the "troph of prison rape and abuse." But this is in line with what Roy said about his admiration of prison life, the stronger over the weaker made sense to him. Turns out Lorraine has ways of using that to her advantage. Bullys got to bully and Roy is going to understand what that actually feels like. Lorraine is a bigger bully by virtue of having more money than Roy. She uses debts to encourage others to work for her.
What matters on how one defines weakness and strength. We can see this in the final scene of Bisquik. Joy and love can overcome. Some debts can be forgiven? Maybe?
I understood what they were saying thematically with Roy's fate, and the writing and Hamm certainly did a lot of work to make Tillman so utterly deserving of hate that it's hard to have sympathy for him no matter what befalls him. But the scene still played into this idea that prison is filled with horrible people like Roy and they treat each other horribly especially with systematic sexual abuse etc., an idea popularized by "The Shawshank Redemption" and "Oz". In reality prison is filled with tons of people who never killed anyone or did anything violent (You don't get to "mass" incarceration just locking up the iredeemables like Roy) and the vast majority of the abuse inside comes from guards and other staff. In fact, it would've rung more true if Lorraine had forgiven some prison guards their debts in exchange for being "exta-attentive" to Roy. They're the ones who have all the power inside
That go little bit hand in hand with Fargo's view of policing. This is really first time we see corrupt cops. Generally everyone from Colin Hanks' aspiring mailman in first season to Deputies Farr and Olmstead in this one are well-meaning folks who put on badge out of genuine desire to help, and that really not square with anything we know about policing in real life.
But me also understand that show needed way for Lorraine to turn tables on Roy, and prison was way to do that, and denying parole not really enough on that score.
You are correct there. It is a major reason why cops are truly scared about ending up in prison. They put other people there. And might be why there is a reluctance to find police officers guilty.
I understand this in a broader view. Roy starts out telling Lorraine he likes it there because in prison, there is the kind of sorting out where groups form and the stronger ones can rule over the weak ones. Lorraine turns that on him by letting him know he isn't the strongest one. She is. A woman! She is going to make sure he feels the Fear, Pain, Shame that he has meted out to women in his life. The worst thing a man like Roy Tillman can feel is being treated like he treated the women in his life.
And remember, he.was a powerful County Sheriff with over the top powers that made his constituents fear him. I'm thinking of the scene where he is taking Dot out of the hospital and the woman at the desk was truly afraid of him because he knew something about her and her loved ones that he was holding over her.
"Noel in his recap says the Tillman ranch standoff stuff was resolved in the first third and then it was the epilogues. I felt like everything from last week was done in the first 10-15 minutes and then it was a series of epilogues"
so... you agree with noel? the episode was like 43 minutes
1. if your complaint is that the ending is not cynical enough, eat something made with love and joy
2. Normally, threatening someone with the extra-judicial aspects of prison is low but
A. Roy opens by reveling in prison as a perfect society because he believes himself to be the Uber mensch. But like Hobbes, Loraine revels life in such a world to be nasty, brutish, and short because there is always a bigger threat. Roy despises the Leviathan that could have protected him and in the end it costs him
B. She admits to having no principles and is playing his game his way
Great write up, Noel.
As someone who is an absolute sucker for hot biscuits, I enjoyed the ending. I liked most of the episode and almost all of the season but didn't really think it was necessary for Witt to die. It was fun seeing Juno Temple get to do something besides dress in mini skirts (and not have much else to do) in Ted Lasso.
Before watching this episode I remembered Nikki Swango in Season 3 Fargo. Hawley had her killed before she could avenge Emmitt (or was it Roy). I was thinking I'd be angry if he did in Dot at the end but, there was that possibility. I was sad that it was Witt Farr. I agree it wasn't necessary but then again, someone had to go.
Even though they only have couple of scenes together, me did have nice little fantasy that things would end with Farr asking Olmstead out for cup of coffee after everything was said and done.
I get where people are coming from when they express surprise that Lorraine would now feel the need to be the force of vengeance for abused women, but I see it a bit differently. I think that she is exactly the kind of person who has no use for empathy as a general concept and only recognizes an issue when it touches them or someone they know well. She is like a politician who only acknowledges that gay people should have basic rights after they have a gay child.
I also doubt that she would extend her sympathies much beyond her own daughter-in-law. She just sees Roy Tillman as holding a debt that needs repayment, even when she is ostensibly collecting that repayment on behalf of someone who we see moments later extolling the virtues of debt forgiveness.
It worth mentioning that Lorraine also getting revenge for Danish Graves, only person with possible exception of her son who she seemed close to.
WHY AM I CRYING ABOUT A MAN EATING A BISCUIT.
Thank you so much for your insightful and entertaining reviews this season! (Unlike most, I am one who actually enjoys reading your analysis and reactions *before* I watch an episode. Sacrilege, I know. Although it may limit suspense and surprise, I do not actually enjoy suspense, ha! I much prefer insight and understanding nuance, recognizing references.) You helped me enjoy this season far more than I would have, I deeply appreciate having such an informed, intelligent guide. **While I am handing out compliments, shout out to the casting director! What I may enjoy most about any Coen film is the care taken in casting even the smallest role. Fargo Season 5 lived up to that ethos in full - great cast, great performances!
Found this an immensely satisfying and moving finale as well. Thanks for the great recaps!
In the prison scene, Lorraine is not being the avenger for abused women (or at least not just that) - she’s being the avenger of Danish Graves!
I thought this was a solid finale to a mostly solid season. I don’t think I would rank it on the same level as S1 and S2, but probably on par overall with S3. (I have yet to watch S4, which I will get around to at some point)
The final action at the compound was good. I’m glad Dot got to shoot Tillman. Pretty pissed that Whit was killed. I guess Hawkey’s saying that the MAGA types are killing decency? I think I would have been happier overall with the show if Whit survived.
One thing I’ll say is that the numerous “cuts to black” during the final few minutes at the compound were kind of annoying.
I think in this episode I struggled most with Tillman. He went full cartoon - slicing, stabbing, swastika - the three S’s of over-the-top villainy! I know none of it was out of the blue and in a lot of ways were probably logical developments for that character in that situation, but I really think a little subtlety could have gone a long way here (much like our old friend Lars a few weeks ago).
I actually thought Lorraine’s final punishment for Tillman was pretty clever writing and got a good kick out of it.
I thought the whole final scene with Ole and the Lyon family was great. One of the highlights of the season. Noel articulated my thoughts pretty well. I’m actually surprised I liked it as much as I did, but I thought it was about as perfect an ending to the season as we could have hoped for. All four characters were hilarious (especially Ole) and even some of the sappier parts of the dialogue were at least well placed.
So yeah, I’m glad I was wrong with my prediction last week that we had seen the last of Munch.
Thanks for the reviews Noel! It’s been fun reading along with them and the comments. I’ll definitely be back for another round of Fargo if Hawley ever gets to it.
Wayne's hand reaching in from off camera to clink Ole's bottle was especially LOL
I just keeping of Wayne saying “geez!” during Ole’s story. What a wonderful scene. What a wonderful show. Geez!
I don't actually buy that she's really avenging anyone other than her own need to be the Most Alpha
You know, I feel like an actual Coens spin on this season would probably have Loraine be in Ole’s place at the end, calling in Indira’s debts instead of Dot’s, with the younger Lyonses trying their courtesy routine to save Indira and just bricking it because Loraine isn’t some whimsical man-child embodying the vague concept of debt, she is an actual debt collector. I feel like in that version, Indira would lose all her possessions, the Lyons would feel bad but big mama wouldn’t, so they’d just eat dinner and get on with their lives.
What I guess we get instead is… idk, a paean to the coalition-building power of contempt for vulgar men, with Loraine spiking the ball for the good guys? A vision of big business conservatives bringing belligerent fascists to heel instead of finding common ideological cause with them? This aired the day after the 2024 Iowa caucuses (if you’re reading this from the future -- yes, we should have done more), and suffice to say I think Loraine is more of a magical character than Ole Munch. She even personally lifts Indira up as a job creator! Fuckin Willy Wonka over here.
I have no idea why you’d go this saccharine with a franchise which is meant to pay tribute to the least sentimental of popular American filmmakers. They laugh for the same reasons Kafka laughed: because when faced with cruelty it’s that or crying. There isn’t much to be thankful for in those stories.
"I’m also wary of art that panders to my biases, and I can’t deny there were times in these episodes (including the finale) where I rolled my eyes at how hard Hawley and company were hitting their points."
I respect this. And generally, I agree. It's not that I think the show's message is off the mark, but there's enough rhetoric out there, and I prefer my art with a side of nuance. I want it to ask more of me than just reaffirming my beliefs.
But I'm not sure I felt that here. Neither Lyon nor Tillman felt like obvious Trump stand-ins, liberal boogeymen, or anything that hyperbolic. They represent opposite sides of American authoritarianism—Tillman by force, Lyon by finance. She may present herself as a conservative caricature, but she is much more in the neoliberal vein of picking people's pockets with full impunity. I think they both made great villains, and while I could quibble with the resolution that one is worse than the other, the house always wins, and the more I think about it, the more it seems obvious Tillman never stood a chance against her. I think you were on the money last week when you talked about debt being the primary theme of the season, and I think Hawley's politics here are more nuanced than he initially presents them. Just my take, of course.
So, here's a picky point:
The events supposedly happened in 2019. If the show starts around Halloween in 2019, and the climax occurs a few weeks or months later, the epilog occurs in late 2020 or early 2021, the first winter of COVID-19. Yet, there's no evidence of that. Surely, the prison would be on a lockdown. If the start is meant to be in the fall of 2018 and the climax is as late as early 2019, then there is no problem, as the epilog would happen in early 2020, just before COVID shuts things down.
So, the 2019 reference needs to refer to the climax, not the opening scenes, with those occurring in the height of winter 2018-2019.
Well I made some calls and I'm pretty sure this show wasn't based on true events at all, so I'm okay if this fictional reality didn't have a global pandemic.
Dot's biscuits were so good that they cured COVID.
I was trying to do that math too, and forgot that the season mostly took place circa Halloween. But Whit’s headstone did say he died in 2019, which would make the epilogues in late 2020. So, seemingly in a fictional world where COVID doesn’t exist (like the one everyone seems to live in now!).
Totally agree with Noel and the others here that while two of the epilogues felt unsatisfactory, Ole Munch and the biscuit was amazing. Juno Temple especially is so good in that scene, and I felt like it at least closed the loop on the Munch plot that has felt very tangential all season. Overall, this year has been a pretty great return to form, I’d say on par with Season 3 and a step behind 1 and 2.
Thanks Noel for the reviews and everyone for the great comments!