Why don't the Emmys just change the categories to "Best Short-Form Ongoing Television Show" and "Best Long-Form Ongoing Television Show" or something like that? I know that doesn't exactly roll off the tongue, but it would solve this whole comedy/drama nonsense and focus on the main difference being the length of the episodes. The Oscars have Short Film and Feature Film categories, why not for television? The reason a show like The Bear just "feels different" than hour-long dramas is not that it's comedic and the longer shows are dramas, it's that the length itself creates a different kind of pacing and narrative drive. So that seems like the better differentiation than genre.
I agree this makes a ton of sense which probably means it'll never come close to happening. A series doesn't automatically become a comedy just because it's episodes are around half an hour long. And they hardly ever happen but I could imagine an hour long comedy by the same token. The subgenre of half hour dramedies a la Beef and Russian Doll happens to be some of my favorite television. It would be nice if they could be recognized without being incorrectly billed as comedies
Very interesting that the TV Academy changed its rules essentially just to punish Netflix, and only Netflix.
I don't have a dog in the fight, really, but to my mind The Bear is a drama with comedic moments. I wondered why FX didn't just accept that and move it to the drama category, where it would have easily won given the dearth of good dramas out this year. (Until Shogun pulled its move, Best Drama was looking pretty dire. Even in a world where it's Shogun vs The Bear for Best Drama, I don't know who wins that.) They probably didn't because they want to preserve wins in comedy for future years when the other dramas are back...which does feel like gaming the system, a bit. This year feels particularly egregious for gaming the system, but perhaps that's just because it was a bad TV year, especially on the drama side.
I wish shows weren't sweeping awards these days. I know it's because people in the industry only watch 3 shows, but remember the wild days when Tatiana Maslany could (deservedly!) win Best Actress for Orphan Black? That feels impossible now, which is a shame.
I do think The Bear deserves recognition, and genres has become genuinley fluid now that makes things diffuclt to classify, but it would also just be a shame to see it dominate the comedy category for the next 3 years at a time when everyone seems to be lamenting the lack of comedy on TV and film. The Emmys themselves may not care, but the awards do seem to provide signals to the industry about what is liked abd appreciated (or maybe they dont?).
Much worse in the Emmys then The Bear competing in comedy is the fact that one show is determined a winner of the entire category, and the subcategories are then just awarded as follows, so you have JAW winning best comedy actor. Other performanxes you can classify as comedic, but his you really cant IMO. A perfect world would perhaps be voters signalling their favorite COMEDIC performance, rather than the lead peformance of their favorite show.
But theres too much TV I guess abd people are lazy. Go back to 2010 and you see different shows winning each category. It made the awards more fun and the landscape feel more vibrant.
I was literally just thinking about the genre issue last night when I watched the first 4 episodes of Baby Reindeer. I realized they're gonna sell this show as a comedy--a show that features--SPOILER ALERT/CW--a traumatic on-screen r*pe. I'm not trying to criticize anyone in particular there beyond a system that would allow a dark, twisted show about violent trauma be classified as a comedy. Of course, I suppose Shameless kind of already pioneered that area, so maybe I'm just screaming into the void.
Maybe Comedy and Drama worked as clear-cut categories 25 years ago, but they simply don't anymore.
I haven't been able to stop thinking about the below Emily Nussbaum tweet from January. I know this was joking but I honestly think the Emmys would be better with more creative categories like this. But that wouldn't be as "high-minded" as the binary divide.
"The Emmy categories should be Funny Drama, Sad Comedy, Legit Hilarious, Pioneering Weirdos, Only Okay But We Like The People Involved, Cast So Sexy That We Want To See Their Speeches and Comfort Food" https://x.com/emilynussbaum/status/1747320318085955759?lang=en
I love the drama of categorization and I'm here for those debates, but I do think there's something to the length of an episode; it seems to me that there are fewer 42-60 minute dramedies (they exist, like Chuck or Crazy Ex-Girlfriend, and of course Shameless and OitNB) than 30-minute 'comedies.' It \feels like that's where this drama/comedy debate comes out most strongly (in the space where Fleabag and Atlanta and Better Things and The Bear etc exist). But I don't know, I haven't counted!
Mostly, I love how 30-minute 'comedies' can sometimes use their format to engage with viewer expectations. One of my favourite comedies of the last decade, You're the Worst (spoilers for S1/S2), is mostly just funny until, suddenly, in S2, the show shifts tone dramatically and lets the audience know that these people are "the worst" for reasons! And now the show is much darker! And so good!
It was particularly egregious last year, when Succession (best drama) had me rolling on the floor laughing a couple times when an entire season of The Bear (best comedy) only got smiles, not laughs from me. Season 1 of The Bear (which competed last year) was more comedic than Season 2 of The Bear (which is probably going to sweep), so I'm still grumpy about it. It won't be getting my vote, though I would consider votes for the cast if I was eligible to vote in the acting awards (which I'm not).
The most elegant solution to me, at this point, is Best Half-Hour Series and Best Hourlong Series. Anything with an average run time of, say, over 40 minutes must be in the longer category. If that means a show switches every year, fine with me. Would shake things up.
Yeah don't necessarily have a hot take here, though I appreciate Myles' essay and everyone else's comments. I definitely see more evidence that The Bear should be properly be labeled a drama than I did that Succession should've properly been a comedy. But at the end of the day, they're probably in the right categories? I definitely do agree however, that the acting nominations get super tricky. Jeremy Allen White is not really doing a comedic performance.
1) I assume Only Murders in the Building at the end of August is a shoo-in.
2) Maybe Pachinko (august 23) could be an interesting addition. I did not watch season 1, but perhaps it's worth watching ahead of season 2 if you're going to cover it.
3) A show called "Those About to Die" starring Anthony Hopkins as a gladiator? (July 18, Peacock)
4) Bad Monkey, a murder mystery with Vince Vaughn (August 14, Apple TV)
Why don't the Emmys just change the categories to "Best Short-Form Ongoing Television Show" and "Best Long-Form Ongoing Television Show" or something like that? I know that doesn't exactly roll off the tongue, but it would solve this whole comedy/drama nonsense and focus on the main difference being the length of the episodes. The Oscars have Short Film and Feature Film categories, why not for television? The reason a show like The Bear just "feels different" than hour-long dramas is not that it's comedic and the longer shows are dramas, it's that the length itself creates a different kind of pacing and narrative drive. So that seems like the better differentiation than genre.
I agree this makes a ton of sense which probably means it'll never come close to happening. A series doesn't automatically become a comedy just because it's episodes are around half an hour long. And they hardly ever happen but I could imagine an hour long comedy by the same token. The subgenre of half hour dramedies a la Beef and Russian Doll happens to be some of my favorite television. It would be nice if they could be recognized without being incorrectly billed as comedies
Very interesting that the TV Academy changed its rules essentially just to punish Netflix, and only Netflix.
I don't have a dog in the fight, really, but to my mind The Bear is a drama with comedic moments. I wondered why FX didn't just accept that and move it to the drama category, where it would have easily won given the dearth of good dramas out this year. (Until Shogun pulled its move, Best Drama was looking pretty dire. Even in a world where it's Shogun vs The Bear for Best Drama, I don't know who wins that.) They probably didn't because they want to preserve wins in comedy for future years when the other dramas are back...which does feel like gaming the system, a bit. This year feels particularly egregious for gaming the system, but perhaps that's just because it was a bad TV year, especially on the drama side.
I wish shows weren't sweeping awards these days. I know it's because people in the industry only watch 3 shows, but remember the wild days when Tatiana Maslany could (deservedly!) win Best Actress for Orphan Black? That feels impossible now, which is a shame.
I do think The Bear deserves recognition, and genres has become genuinley fluid now that makes things diffuclt to classify, but it would also just be a shame to see it dominate the comedy category for the next 3 years at a time when everyone seems to be lamenting the lack of comedy on TV and film. The Emmys themselves may not care, but the awards do seem to provide signals to the industry about what is liked abd appreciated (or maybe they dont?).
Much worse in the Emmys then The Bear competing in comedy is the fact that one show is determined a winner of the entire category, and the subcategories are then just awarded as follows, so you have JAW winning best comedy actor. Other performanxes you can classify as comedic, but his you really cant IMO. A perfect world would perhaps be voters signalling their favorite COMEDIC performance, rather than the lead peformance of their favorite show.
But theres too much TV I guess abd people are lazy. Go back to 2010 and you see different shows winning each category. It made the awards more fun and the landscape feel more vibrant.
I was literally just thinking about the genre issue last night when I watched the first 4 episodes of Baby Reindeer. I realized they're gonna sell this show as a comedy--a show that features--SPOILER ALERT/CW--a traumatic on-screen r*pe. I'm not trying to criticize anyone in particular there beyond a system that would allow a dark, twisted show about violent trauma be classified as a comedy. Of course, I suppose Shameless kind of already pioneered that area, so maybe I'm just screaming into the void.
Maybe Comedy and Drama worked as clear-cut categories 25 years ago, but they simply don't anymore.
I haven't been able to stop thinking about the below Emily Nussbaum tweet from January. I know this was joking but I honestly think the Emmys would be better with more creative categories like this. But that wouldn't be as "high-minded" as the binary divide.
"The Emmy categories should be Funny Drama, Sad Comedy, Legit Hilarious, Pioneering Weirdos, Only Okay But We Like The People Involved, Cast So Sexy That We Want To See Their Speeches and Comfort Food" https://x.com/emilynussbaum/status/1747320318085955759?lang=en
Baby Reindeer is a Limited Series so it avoids this problem!
I love the drama of categorization and I'm here for those debates, but I do think there's something to the length of an episode; it seems to me that there are fewer 42-60 minute dramedies (they exist, like Chuck or Crazy Ex-Girlfriend, and of course Shameless and OitNB) than 30-minute 'comedies.' It \feels like that's where this drama/comedy debate comes out most strongly (in the space where Fleabag and Atlanta and Better Things and The Bear etc exist). But I don't know, I haven't counted!
Mostly, I love how 30-minute 'comedies' can sometimes use their format to engage with viewer expectations. One of my favourite comedies of the last decade, You're the Worst (spoilers for S1/S2), is mostly just funny until, suddenly, in S2, the show shifts tone dramatically and lets the audience know that these people are "the worst" for reasons! And now the show is much darker! And so good!
Also! This exact conversation informed one of my favourite SNL sketches (a sendup of Transparent, which has not aged so well): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMpRJwP5y9Q
It was particularly egregious last year, when Succession (best drama) had me rolling on the floor laughing a couple times when an entire season of The Bear (best comedy) only got smiles, not laughs from me. Season 1 of The Bear (which competed last year) was more comedic than Season 2 of The Bear (which is probably going to sweep), so I'm still grumpy about it. It won't be getting my vote, though I would consider votes for the cast if I was eligible to vote in the acting awards (which I'm not).
The most elegant solution to me, at this point, is Best Half-Hour Series and Best Hourlong Series. Anything with an average run time of, say, over 40 minutes must be in the longer category. If that means a show switches every year, fine with me. Would shake things up.
Yeah don't necessarily have a hot take here, though I appreciate Myles' essay and everyone else's comments. I definitely see more evidence that The Bear should be properly be labeled a drama than I did that Succession should've properly been a comedy. But at the end of the day, they're probably in the right categories? I definitely do agree however, that the acting nominations get super tricky. Jeremy Allen White is not really doing a comedic performance.
Re: July and August shows, I looked at this list of upcoming premieres (https://www.tvinsider.com/shows/calendar/#July) and only could come up with a few ideas:
1) I assume Only Murders in the Building at the end of August is a shoo-in.
2) Maybe Pachinko (august 23) could be an interesting addition. I did not watch season 1, but perhaps it's worth watching ahead of season 2 if you're going to cover it.
3) A show called "Those About to Die" starring Anthony Hopkins as a gladiator? (July 18, Peacock)
4) Bad Monkey, a murder mystery with Vince Vaughn (August 14, Apple TV)
All excellent points, Myles. The Bear is still not a comedy.
It funnier than The Martian!
Richie getting stabbed in the ass is one of the funniest things that's happened on TV in years
Also dosing kids with hi-c benzo-cooler