The funniest dimension of the challenges facing the MCU is that they are the same challenges the comic book industry has been dealing with (often badly) for years (at least mainstream Marvel and DC storytelling). 80 years of Canon means struggling to hold on to readers while attracting new ones... so, a lot of attempts at hard reboots or retellings (e.g., ultimate spiderman), soft reboots with new entry points, or major Events and Crossovers. But the issue of how a given property, story, or character serves the whole is always lurking in the background. It's like the classic comic technique of adding a little note saying 'oh right check out Spidey 67 for this thing you may not have seen happen outside of the avengers.'
This is my biggest complaint about Phase 4. I really enjoyed Wandavision as a sendup of the history of sitcoms. What a refreshing (if not always well executed) creative choice in a fairly samey universe / collection of marvel stories. Except then it had to tie into broader MCU issues and ends in a more traditional marvel way, setting up multiverse of madness. Who cares? I'm someone who is both invested in broader Canon but also realllly wants each show to be its own. So I don't really know where that leaves me other than annoyed and fatigued. I *like* the lack of direction for phase 4 because it would mean more individual stories and story styles rather than always needing to lead to the Next Big Thing.
If I’m being completely honest, I watch for two reasons. The first is I like the escapism. I like sitting in a dark theater on a freezing or boiling day and forgetting about the world. Or, watching while hanging on my couch at 10pm. The second is the physical attractiveness of some of the actors. Someone super hot covers up a lot of problems.
While I mostly agree with the criticisms of Phase Four, they really don't bother me as much. Between the pandemic, schedule reshuffling, and constant need for D+ content, you can clearly see where all the various stories suffer (Sinister Strange should have been in Spiderman: NWH after MoM, WandaVision should have come out after MoM, Guardians 3 should have preceded Thor before the Gunn firing/rehiring delayed that into Hell, etc). Phase Four was always going to be a soft reset, and mimic Phase One in tone and scope, introducing new heroes and antagonists. Thanos wasn't even teased until the end of Phase One in Avengers, and to my knowledge there isn't even an Avengers level cap to Phase Four (kind of hoping AntMan 3 with Kang will be that piece?). All this to say, yeah, tonally these shows/movies have been all over the place, the quality runs the gamut of being way better than it should be (Hawkeye), to largely a let down (WinterSolider, Thor4), to just plain weird and offputting (MoM, Moon Knight). But as a comics nerd I am used to this and will keep on following along because at the end of the day this content is fun and escapist, and features a lot of actors and directors I like, knowing that it will eventually head somewhere (Kang, Dr Doom, Galactus). I must add I might be the only person on Earth who didn't care for NWH at all. Thought it was pretty terrible mess from start to finish, Loki was a masterclass in comparison.
I'll be honest, I don't care about what the wider plan is for Phase 4/5/6. I'd much rather focus on the characters' individual arcs, then about if they're setting up Young Avengers or Thunderbolts or whatever group.
The few connective pieces we have gotten, with Julia Louis-Dreyfus's Val, have been awful. I love Florence Pugh and Wyatt Russell, and don't want them in whatever this storyline turns out to be. On a side note, it's annoying that there is now Val the JLD character and Val the Tessa Thompson character. Especially as Valkyrie isn't even Valkyrie's name, it's her job; they just never bothered to give her a name and now characters call her Val.
The multiverse/incursion stuff hinted at in MoM doesn't excite much either. It's fine for a storyline in Loki or whatever, but I don't need it to spread into the next Captain America or Shang-Chi movie.
Something I find interesting in reading these discussions of the MCU is that "all happy MCU fans are alike, but every unhappy fan is unhappy in their own way." I'm seeing 20 different reasons why the MCU is in a slump, and most of them contradict each other. Which leads me to suspect that, by becoming too big to fail, the MCU has also become too big to please. The content is diversifying and branching out into different styles, sub-genres, and target audiences, to the point where there is now an MCU title to displease everybody. Can't stand YA? Here's Ms. Marvel! Do you prefer standalone stories? Then you're sure to be dissatisfied by Strange 2! You like interconnected stories? Here's Moon Knight instead!
A writetly comment on the original meaning of “too big to fail” and what the meaning’s become.
The original meaning, dating back all the way to the 2008 financial crisis, was that certain banks & companies, like AIG, were so enmeshed in the economy that they couldn’t be ALLOWED to fail. They had to be bailed out.
From that vulnerable beginning, we get to the implied meaning in your title: An institution so diversified, so certain of success that it cannot fail.
I think I am in the position where I do not really consider the MCU as a cohesive universe anymore. I take each project as a standalone thing that might or might not include references to other projects. I do not intend to watch some of the feature films and I will definitely bail on some of the series of they do not seem interesting to me.
As such, I really liked Loki, Hawkeye and Ms! Marvel for their uniqueness and fun. On the other hand, Love and Thunder was a flaming fiasco that managed to disconnect me completely from the characters. The use of children soldiers ans the overall lack of scenario were the many straws to break the camel's back...
In conclusion, what I hope and expect from Marvel (and not the MCU) now is nice stories, well written and with a creative style. Which is basically what I expect from any media...
I think I have mentioned before that I still haven’t even seen all the movies. I am as casual as they come in terms of viewing MCU content. I probably prefer the origin movies because they don’t require any homework. So it seems flitting and floating into the MCU might be the best policy.
The funniest dimension of the challenges facing the MCU is that they are the same challenges the comic book industry has been dealing with (often badly) for years (at least mainstream Marvel and DC storytelling). 80 years of Canon means struggling to hold on to readers while attracting new ones... so, a lot of attempts at hard reboots or retellings (e.g., ultimate spiderman), soft reboots with new entry points, or major Events and Crossovers. But the issue of how a given property, story, or character serves the whole is always lurking in the background. It's like the classic comic technique of adding a little note saying 'oh right check out Spidey 67 for this thing you may not have seen happen outside of the avengers.'
This is my biggest complaint about Phase 4. I really enjoyed Wandavision as a sendup of the history of sitcoms. What a refreshing (if not always well executed) creative choice in a fairly samey universe / collection of marvel stories. Except then it had to tie into broader MCU issues and ends in a more traditional marvel way, setting up multiverse of madness. Who cares? I'm someone who is both invested in broader Canon but also realllly wants each show to be its own. So I don't really know where that leaves me other than annoyed and fatigued. I *like* the lack of direction for phase 4 because it would mean more individual stories and story styles rather than always needing to lead to the Next Big Thing.
If I’m being completely honest, I watch for two reasons. The first is I like the escapism. I like sitting in a dark theater on a freezing or boiling day and forgetting about the world. Or, watching while hanging on my couch at 10pm. The second is the physical attractiveness of some of the actors. Someone super hot covers up a lot of problems.
While I mostly agree with the criticisms of Phase Four, they really don't bother me as much. Between the pandemic, schedule reshuffling, and constant need for D+ content, you can clearly see where all the various stories suffer (Sinister Strange should have been in Spiderman: NWH after MoM, WandaVision should have come out after MoM, Guardians 3 should have preceded Thor before the Gunn firing/rehiring delayed that into Hell, etc). Phase Four was always going to be a soft reset, and mimic Phase One in tone and scope, introducing new heroes and antagonists. Thanos wasn't even teased until the end of Phase One in Avengers, and to my knowledge there isn't even an Avengers level cap to Phase Four (kind of hoping AntMan 3 with Kang will be that piece?). All this to say, yeah, tonally these shows/movies have been all over the place, the quality runs the gamut of being way better than it should be (Hawkeye), to largely a let down (WinterSolider, Thor4), to just plain weird and offputting (MoM, Moon Knight). But as a comics nerd I am used to this and will keep on following along because at the end of the day this content is fun and escapist, and features a lot of actors and directors I like, knowing that it will eventually head somewhere (Kang, Dr Doom, Galactus). I must add I might be the only person on Earth who didn't care for NWH at all. Thought it was pretty terrible mess from start to finish, Loki was a masterclass in comparison.
I'll be honest, I don't care about what the wider plan is for Phase 4/5/6. I'd much rather focus on the characters' individual arcs, then about if they're setting up Young Avengers or Thunderbolts or whatever group.
The few connective pieces we have gotten, with Julia Louis-Dreyfus's Val, have been awful. I love Florence Pugh and Wyatt Russell, and don't want them in whatever this storyline turns out to be. On a side note, it's annoying that there is now Val the JLD character and Val the Tessa Thompson character. Especially as Valkyrie isn't even Valkyrie's name, it's her job; they just never bothered to give her a name and now characters call her Val.
The multiverse/incursion stuff hinted at in MoM doesn't excite much either. It's fine for a storyline in Loki or whatever, but I don't need it to spread into the next Captain America or Shang-Chi movie.
Something I find interesting in reading these discussions of the MCU is that "all happy MCU fans are alike, but every unhappy fan is unhappy in their own way." I'm seeing 20 different reasons why the MCU is in a slump, and most of them contradict each other. Which leads me to suspect that, by becoming too big to fail, the MCU has also become too big to please. The content is diversifying and branching out into different styles, sub-genres, and target audiences, to the point where there is now an MCU title to displease everybody. Can't stand YA? Here's Ms. Marvel! Do you prefer standalone stories? Then you're sure to be dissatisfied by Strange 2! You like interconnected stories? Here's Moon Knight instead!
"And who in their right mind didn’t bail after a couple episodes of Falcon & The Winter Soldier?"
I liked F&tWS. It definitely should have been at least 8 episodes as it looks like there are scenes missing, but it had a lot f great stuff.
Just want to point out that Bale's character is called "Gorr," Gorn is a Star Trek alien species, I believe.
A writetly comment on the original meaning of “too big to fail” and what the meaning’s become.
The original meaning, dating back all the way to the 2008 financial crisis, was that certain banks & companies, like AIG, were so enmeshed in the economy that they couldn’t be ALLOWED to fail. They had to be bailed out.
From that vulnerable beginning, we get to the implied meaning in your title: An institution so diversified, so certain of success that it cannot fail.
Weird how language changes.
I think I am in the position where I do not really consider the MCU as a cohesive universe anymore. I take each project as a standalone thing that might or might not include references to other projects. I do not intend to watch some of the feature films and I will definitely bail on some of the series of they do not seem interesting to me.
As such, I really liked Loki, Hawkeye and Ms! Marvel for their uniqueness and fun. On the other hand, Love and Thunder was a flaming fiasco that managed to disconnect me completely from the characters. The use of children soldiers ans the overall lack of scenario were the many straws to break the camel's back...
In conclusion, what I hope and expect from Marvel (and not the MCU) now is nice stories, well written and with a creative style. Which is basically what I expect from any media...
I think I have mentioned before that I still haven’t even seen all the movies. I am as casual as they come in terms of viewing MCU content. I probably prefer the origin movies because they don’t require any homework. So it seems flitting and floating into the MCU might be the best policy.