!!! I have so much sympathy for what this experience must do to a person’s mind and body, but there was just no equilibrium to latch onto here. He hit that first beach convinced he was back in high school and never got out of that headspace.
Maybe I'm just a horrible, cynical person, but Andy's breakdown felt a little... calculated to me. Seemed like he decided it would look more sympathetic to be Medevac-ed off than voted out and was trying to spin that narrative in real time ("I gave everything, Jeff!") Then when Jeff told him he was still in the game, his whole demeanor changed and we got his weird word-vomit group confessional because he didn't have a strategy for moving forward.
IDK, I'm sure he actually was overheated and overwhelmed, but it never felt like there was a moment where he wasn't also thinking "how will this play to a TV audience?" even if his instincts for what will play well with a TV audience are maybe not that good.
I try not to get too hung up on things like this, but the fact that someone recognized Aysha, who is not even a huuugley prominent RHAPer, tells you something about how they cast nowadays. Seemed like a lot of podcasters, radio hosts, sports broadcasters, freelance writers, and graphic designers made it into the cast this season! (Otherwise psyched to see Aysha play thos season)
I was dissapointed with the boot, both because he seemed like ye would be a good narrarator and now it seems like we may be in abother Bhanu situation of having to watch Andy eat airtime for another 1-2 episodes before he inevitably gets eliminated.
I've never watched a season of Survivor live before, and in fact I only just watched season 13 (the race-based tribes season) just before this one to get a brief sense of what the game is about. Looking forward to reading these reviews, though I'll definitely be coming to it as a newbie.
Anyway, I was just super disappointed that Lovett was voted out this episode. I'm not even a regular listener of his podcast, but was looking forward to seeing him on the show. As Myles said he was a good narrator in this episode. And the argument about keeping Andy because he's strong seemed a bit shortsighted if he's going to wilt under pressure.
I also did find it a bit jarring at how meta some of the contestants seem. Clearly Aysha being a Survivor podcaster is the biggest example. But someone else mentioned owning the Survivor 101 book, and even Jon referred to watching Richard Hatch winning. (And I saw on twitter that Tweeny is a superfan too.) It's not surprising that if you sign up to do this show you're really into the show itself. But as someone who's still quite new to all this, it felt like I was a bit out of the loop already. (This is true of the Beware Advantages too, which were not a thing in the one season I watched).
Again, I'm looking forward to reading Myles's reviews, but this was a disappointing start to the season for sure.
Lastly, for those of you who are more experts, was Andy's meltdown during the challenge like an all-time WTF moment, or just a pretty memorable one if not uncommon?
There have definitely been more mental health-related moments in the last few seasons - Ben from s46 was having panic attacks throughout the season, and the show, cynically, used it to build the eventual winner's narrative - Kinzie, the winner of s46, was portrayed on the show as always being there to comfort him and get him through his struggles, but in reality she was just one of many who assisted him.
But if you want to google "Brandon Hantz meltdown" you can see the granddaddy of them all.
Bhanu last season was also having multiple freakouts an episode about his place in the game while he was there, and it wore thin very quickly. Don't keep the loose cannon around hoping you can change them, people! You can't change them! Sigh.
As a Lovett/PSA listener and fan, I am SUPER bummed he went first because he's very clever and funny and would have been great but also? It was INCREDIBLY stressful worrying that he *might* go first so I'm kind of relieved he's not on the show anymore soooooo.
Ugh same! At first I was like, oh no Jon is on the yellow tribe and I feel like they always lose, only to feel better after the first challenge, but then also worried by how many talking heads he had…roller coaster for sure. Such a loss for the show but will make the next episodes less anxiety inducing for me.
So my “on in the background while I work” show for the last couple of months has been old school survivor, something I haven’t revisited in many many years and am really changing my opinions about a lot of things while doing but I am really struck by the fact that back in the 2000s, people simply did not crash out on Survivor the way they do literally every season in the new era even though the game is way shorter (Osten in pearl islands kindaaaa but it wasn’t the way we’ve seen Hannah, Sean, Andy, Jess, Bhanu, and Brandon crash in the last couple of seasons alone). Maybe this can be chalked up to too many survivor nerds who maybe shouldn’t have “gotten up off the couch” in casting now as the show is more oriented toward its own superfans in its middle age (Aysha instantly being recognized, somehow benefitting from this, and getting to name check RHAP while nobody knew the actually famous Jon was the biggest symbol of it we’ve ever seen) but I also think that the fact that they give them SO MUCH LESS STUFF is causing faster and messier physical and mental breakdowns. I do not enjoy watching this. Andy breaking down hits at the most unpleasant intersection between empathy and wanting to give him a hug and secondhand embarrassment I’ve ever felt and I am tired of this feeling, it is not entertaining. Give them more stuff!
Jon was such a good narrator and I truly didn’t want him out first , but I hope Andy can take the chance to redeem himself a little—he’s someone who is very around in the RHAP circles and has a really charming story of being an alternate last year and having to go home but then meeting his girlfriend at a survivor fan event he wouldn’t have been at if he’d made it on and I hope he’s able to make this a better story for himself even if he has no game longevity whatsoever.
I wonder, honestly, if they were conscious about putting Lovett on a tribe with people they didn't think would know who he was. We'll get a better sense of whether anyone on the other tribes knew him when they get to the next challenge, but it does seem incredulous that there would be an 18-person game where not a single soul knows who he is.
I felt like Jon broke the cardinal rule of first episodes of Survivor; if a majority of your new tribe members come to you and say, "Hey, based solely on first impressions, we want to vote out someone other than you.", then your response should be, "I am absolutely fine with that."
Agreed! I thought the random Hail Mary play against Anika was bizarre when, if anything, he should've doubled down with the group on why he deserved to stay over Andy. I feel like he could've made a compelling argument that you don't actually add "strength" to the group if you can't even finish the challenges. But I also couldn't quite follow if/how Jon's machinations actually impacted the vote, if at all.
I do think that's an attempt to create balance, but so much of the show seems to assume a ton of buy-in in a way that it didn't used to. We've traded trivia about the location (or tribemates) for seeing if you can organize past seasons in release order.
Coming in almost a week late, due to circumstances entirely within my control.
I can’t help but think about an idea I read (probably here last season) that Jeff sees some players not as potential winners, but rather as obstacles for the eventual winners to navigate. It feels like in the new era (how new can it be 7 seasons in) they stuck to their “no villains” philosophy, but in the name of good drama they swapped in “bad players” instead.
I would love even the barest hint of a theme in a new season. It doesn’t have to be as wild as some of the cast-based themes of the past, but at least some coherence beyond the basic designs. The immunity idols are monkeys this season. That’s cool, but meaningless, changing the designs just feels like surface level nothing.
Yes, Probst on his podcast defended the casting of Bhanu and the other no-hopers by saying that showing how Kinzie and the actually good players faced the adversity of having to cope with the deadwood was part of their winners’ journey.
Sol is on my fantasy survivor team this season, I’m looking forward to seeing more of him; his intro video was charming. I also have Ayesha, Kyle, and the Hawaiian castaway whose name has flown out of my head.
I thought this was an electric episode, Jeff speeches notwithstanding. Andy’s breakdown was so naked in its vulnerability. Noel and I talked afterward about the discomfort of seeing mental health issues manifest on the show, and whether there ought to be more vetting of contestants along these lines. I don’t think Andy’s issues are quite as foreseeable as the person who didn’t disclose they were on psychoactive medication and just tried to do without it, urgghhhhh. But it’s a fascinating aspect of Survivor in this younger generation do plagued with mental health crises, that much like people used to go on the show to fix their money problems or prove the haters wrong or whatever, people will increasingly be applying to demonstrate to themselves that they are mentally strong despite past struggles.
It's funny you say that because Sol was also on my original fantasy league team, but when I found out the tribe divisions, I didn't want 3 from one tribe so I switched...
to Andy! 🙃
I did worry that he had gone off his meds, but I'm told they don't force that like they used to. In any case, it was really hard to watch especially because there's quite a lot of burn-out based on Bahnu last season.
Not sure it's okay to mention but the fantasy league I'm in is run by Purple Rock Podcast who actually began because of changes made at the AV Club (which is where I followed them from). After the premiere, I decided I didn't care about how many I had from the red tribe so my team is now Aysha, Krishan, Genevieve, and TK. 🤞🤞🤞
(They let you change up until the 2nd episode begins EST.)
Was it really based on budget that they transitioned from locations to themes? When it was a cultural juggernaut in the first few seasons, each location was big news, hyping each season by the promise of scenery and location-based design. But really, the part of Survivor that was a little geography lesson and wildlife travelogue isn't the part of the show that can remain interesting and fresh for 24 years. So from Seasons 19-32, they'd do the seasons in sets of two, one named after the place, and the other named after the season theme.
I think themes would be invigorating again now that we're well into the forties, so that the seasons get less sameness from one to the next. But I think the ones of casting categories (Collars, David/Goliath) were always a little iffy. When the theme was something about the game mechanics, like One World or Edge of Extinction, they made the seasons more memorable... but I wonder if they'll mess with big enough twists to alter the course of the season.
My logic is that themes had to be introduced to differentiate the two seasons once they were filming back-to-back, which was itself a budget consideration (to avoid having to uproot constantly). Now, of course, they're fully landlocked, and I get that there's a fundamental limit to what themes can do in that space. But I do think that the complete absence of thematic material has a weight.
As somebody who’s friends with Andy in real life (only hung out ~5-10 times, but often talk Survivor), this was a tough watch.
!!! I have so much sympathy for what this experience must do to a person’s mind and body, but there was just no equilibrium to latch onto here. He hit that first beach convinced he was back in high school and never got out of that headspace.
Maybe I'm just a horrible, cynical person, but Andy's breakdown felt a little... calculated to me. Seemed like he decided it would look more sympathetic to be Medevac-ed off than voted out and was trying to spin that narrative in real time ("I gave everything, Jeff!") Then when Jeff told him he was still in the game, his whole demeanor changed and we got his weird word-vomit group confessional because he didn't have a strategy for moving forward.
IDK, I'm sure he actually was overheated and overwhelmed, but it never felt like there was a moment where he wasn't also thinking "how will this play to a TV audience?" even if his instincts for what will play well with a TV audience are maybe not that good.
I try not to get too hung up on things like this, but the fact that someone recognized Aysha, who is not even a huuugley prominent RHAPer, tells you something about how they cast nowadays. Seemed like a lot of podcasters, radio hosts, sports broadcasters, freelance writers, and graphic designers made it into the cast this season! (Otherwise psyched to see Aysha play thos season)
I was dissapointed with the boot, both because he seemed like ye would be a good narrarator and now it seems like we may be in abother Bhanu situation of having to watch Andy eat airtime for another 1-2 episodes before he inevitably gets eliminated.
I've never watched a season of Survivor live before, and in fact I only just watched season 13 (the race-based tribes season) just before this one to get a brief sense of what the game is about. Looking forward to reading these reviews, though I'll definitely be coming to it as a newbie.
Anyway, I was just super disappointed that Lovett was voted out this episode. I'm not even a regular listener of his podcast, but was looking forward to seeing him on the show. As Myles said he was a good narrator in this episode. And the argument about keeping Andy because he's strong seemed a bit shortsighted if he's going to wilt under pressure.
I also did find it a bit jarring at how meta some of the contestants seem. Clearly Aysha being a Survivor podcaster is the biggest example. But someone else mentioned owning the Survivor 101 book, and even Jon referred to watching Richard Hatch winning. (And I saw on twitter that Tweeny is a superfan too.) It's not surprising that if you sign up to do this show you're really into the show itself. But as someone who's still quite new to all this, it felt like I was a bit out of the loop already. (This is true of the Beware Advantages too, which were not a thing in the one season I watched).
Again, I'm looking forward to reading Myles's reviews, but this was a disappointing start to the season for sure.
Lastly, for those of you who are more experts, was Andy's meltdown during the challenge like an all-time WTF moment, or just a pretty memorable one if not uncommon?
There have definitely been more mental health-related moments in the last few seasons - Ben from s46 was having panic attacks throughout the season, and the show, cynically, used it to build the eventual winner's narrative - Kinzie, the winner of s46, was portrayed on the show as always being there to comfort him and get him through his struggles, but in reality she was just one of many who assisted him.
But if you want to google "Brandon Hantz meltdown" you can see the granddaddy of them all.
Bhanu last season was also having multiple freakouts an episode about his place in the game while he was there, and it wore thin very quickly. Don't keep the loose cannon around hoping you can change them, people! You can't change them! Sigh.
As a Lovett/PSA listener and fan, I am SUPER bummed he went first because he's very clever and funny and would have been great but also? It was INCREDIBLY stressful worrying that he *might* go first so I'm kind of relieved he's not on the show anymore soooooo.
Ugh same! At first I was like, oh no Jon is on the yellow tribe and I feel like they always lose, only to feel better after the first challenge, but then also worried by how many talking heads he had…roller coaster for sure. Such a loss for the show but will make the next episodes less anxiety inducing for me.
So my “on in the background while I work” show for the last couple of months has been old school survivor, something I haven’t revisited in many many years and am really changing my opinions about a lot of things while doing but I am really struck by the fact that back in the 2000s, people simply did not crash out on Survivor the way they do literally every season in the new era even though the game is way shorter (Osten in pearl islands kindaaaa but it wasn’t the way we’ve seen Hannah, Sean, Andy, Jess, Bhanu, and Brandon crash in the last couple of seasons alone). Maybe this can be chalked up to too many survivor nerds who maybe shouldn’t have “gotten up off the couch” in casting now as the show is more oriented toward its own superfans in its middle age (Aysha instantly being recognized, somehow benefitting from this, and getting to name check RHAP while nobody knew the actually famous Jon was the biggest symbol of it we’ve ever seen) but I also think that the fact that they give them SO MUCH LESS STUFF is causing faster and messier physical and mental breakdowns. I do not enjoy watching this. Andy breaking down hits at the most unpleasant intersection between empathy and wanting to give him a hug and secondhand embarrassment I’ve ever felt and I am tired of this feeling, it is not entertaining. Give them more stuff!
Jon was such a good narrator and I truly didn’t want him out first , but I hope Andy can take the chance to redeem himself a little—he’s someone who is very around in the RHAP circles and has a really charming story of being an alternate last year and having to go home but then meeting his girlfriend at a survivor fan event he wouldn’t have been at if he’d made it on and I hope he’s able to make this a better story for himself even if he has no game longevity whatsoever.
I wonder, honestly, if they were conscious about putting Lovett on a tribe with people they didn't think would know who he was. We'll get a better sense of whether anyone on the other tribes knew him when they get to the next challenge, but it does seem incredulous that there would be an 18-person game where not a single soul knows who he is.
Pregame interviews I wanna say one person said they recognized him at ponderosa but more people recognized Aysha, I think 3?
I felt like Jon broke the cardinal rule of first episodes of Survivor; if a majority of your new tribe members come to you and say, "Hey, based solely on first impressions, we want to vote out someone other than you.", then your response should be, "I am absolutely fine with that."
Agreed! I thought the random Hail Mary play against Anika was bizarre when, if anything, he should've doubled down with the group on why he deserved to stay over Andy. I feel like he could've made a compelling argument that you don't actually add "strength" to the group if you can't even finish the challenges. But I also couldn't quite follow if/how Jon's machinations actually impacted the vote, if at all.
The entire show is a dog whistle for diehards, man
IS it, though? The New Era’s Backstory approach has often felt like a conscious balance to the superfan side of the coin.
I do think that's an attempt to create balance, but so much of the show seems to assume a ton of buy-in in a way that it didn't used to. We've traded trivia about the location (or tribemates) for seeing if you can organize past seasons in release order.
Coming in almost a week late, due to circumstances entirely within my control.
I can’t help but think about an idea I read (probably here last season) that Jeff sees some players not as potential winners, but rather as obstacles for the eventual winners to navigate. It feels like in the new era (how new can it be 7 seasons in) they stuck to their “no villains” philosophy, but in the name of good drama they swapped in “bad players” instead.
I would love even the barest hint of a theme in a new season. It doesn’t have to be as wild as some of the cast-based themes of the past, but at least some coherence beyond the basic designs. The immunity idols are monkeys this season. That’s cool, but meaningless, changing the designs just feels like surface level nothing.
Yes, Probst on his podcast defended the casting of Bhanu and the other no-hopers by saying that showing how Kinzie and the actually good players faced the adversity of having to cope with the deadwood was part of their winners’ journey.
I believe it was Sol you forgot to write down from the red tribe, Myles.
Sol is on my fantasy survivor team this season, I’m looking forward to seeing more of him; his intro video was charming. I also have Ayesha, Kyle, and the Hawaiian castaway whose name has flown out of my head.
I thought this was an electric episode, Jeff speeches notwithstanding. Andy’s breakdown was so naked in its vulnerability. Noel and I talked afterward about the discomfort of seeing mental health issues manifest on the show, and whether there ought to be more vetting of contestants along these lines. I don’t think Andy’s issues are quite as foreseeable as the person who didn’t disclose they were on psychoactive medication and just tried to do without it, urgghhhhh. But it’s a fascinating aspect of Survivor in this younger generation do plagued with mental health crises, that much like people used to go on the show to fix their money problems or prove the haters wrong or whatever, people will increasingly be applying to demonstrate to themselves that they are mentally strong despite past struggles.
It's funny you say that because Sol was also on my original fantasy league team, but when I found out the tribe divisions, I didn't want 3 from one tribe so I switched...
to Andy! 🙃
I did worry that he had gone off his meds, but I'm told they don't force that like they used to. In any case, it was really hard to watch especially because there's quite a lot of burn-out based on Bahnu last season.
Not sure it's okay to mention but the fantasy league I'm in is run by Purple Rock Podcast who actually began because of changes made at the AV Club (which is where I followed them from). After the premiere, I decided I didn't care about how many I had from the red tribe so my team is now Aysha, Krishan, Genevieve, and TK. 🤞🤞🤞
(They let you change up until the 2nd episode begins EST.)
Was it really based on budget that they transitioned from locations to themes? When it was a cultural juggernaut in the first few seasons, each location was big news, hyping each season by the promise of scenery and location-based design. But really, the part of Survivor that was a little geography lesson and wildlife travelogue isn't the part of the show that can remain interesting and fresh for 24 years. So from Seasons 19-32, they'd do the seasons in sets of two, one named after the place, and the other named after the season theme.
I think themes would be invigorating again now that we're well into the forties, so that the seasons get less sameness from one to the next. But I think the ones of casting categories (Collars, David/Goliath) were always a little iffy. When the theme was something about the game mechanics, like One World or Edge of Extinction, they made the seasons more memorable... but I wonder if they'll mess with big enough twists to alter the course of the season.
My logic is that themes had to be introduced to differentiate the two seasons once they were filming back-to-back, which was itself a budget consideration (to avoid having to uproot constantly). Now, of course, they're fully landlocked, and I get that there's a fundamental limit to what themes can do in that space. But I do think that the complete absence of thematic material has a weight.