It will be interesting to see Ben evolve in the show especially as he plays a part in Solitaire, Oseman's first novel about Charlie's sister Tori (that was revised in 2020, the version recently released in the US), which eventually intersects with Heartstopper although I believe probably not until the next season? (I believe the hope is to do a Solitaire spin-off miniseries starring the actress who plays Tori...the tone is so different it wouldn't work as a season of Heartstopper, although Nick and Charlie do play a part.)
It's unclear—Oseman has talked about how she specifically created Isaac because she didn't want to complicate Aled's role in Solitaire (which I've not read), but I imagine the show's success has meant that she's likely going to be able to connect the universes if she so desires.
And I didn't know he had a part to play in Solitaire, so I may need to make that part of my hiatus reading.
Aled is actually from Radio Silence, the second novel! Idk where I remember them saying that there were hopes for a Solitaire adaptation. It’s definitely possible.
And yes, I originally read Solitaire when it was published in 2015 the first time (I was also a teenager), and I didn’t realize until like last year that he had been in it (and then I reread it in the newly released version and liked it a lot more this time around). It connects to how Ben was allegedly the one to out Charlie, which was even before Heartstopper starts. Solitaire takes place I believe after this season because it is set after (SPOILERS) Charlie’s hospital stay.
That’s okay, I’ll avoid reading the article because spoilers but I am now VERY curious!
EDIT, consider SPOILER WARNING: Okay, I definitely see how he won’t return and yes he goes to the girls school for Sixth Form which is how he ends up in Solitaire. There isn’t a departure from the original books as far as I can tell with that.
Full disclosure: I've already made it through seven of eight. I didn't set an alarm for 4:00 am or anything, but that's when I woke up, so...
Anyway, some unorganized thoughts:
* I buy David Nelson. Parents don't craft their children's personalities nearly as much as we imagine they do, and there are a lot of other influences out there trying to turn young men into dicks.
* One detail I enjoyed related to Charlie's issues with food is that he only fake pours milk onto his cereal.
* It's always a questionable choice when a straight ally cuts off a queer person's coming out by saying they already know (and TV does it a lot), but I gotta give Imogen a pass here. Nick and Charlie are not being subtle. This is jumping ahead a bit, but it kind of makes it hard to accept that coming out to his friends is something that weighs on Nick for multiple episodes worth of story.
* I agree that there are some issues with bi-erasure in how Nick deal with Ben, but given how bad he was with Charlie I think it's fair for Nick to be concerned for Imogen. That said, I'll have more to say about the forgivability of Ben later.
Overall extremely pleased with these first episodes. Holy crap, Netflix really upped the budget. Just that opening montage is so much more visually dynamic than the S1 opening montage. Not to criticize either, I loved them both. But stuff like that moving shot of Charlie texting while eating cereal... yowza!
I didn't read Nick's interactions with Ben as him assuming Ben is secretly gay, but if I'm wrong about that, please educate me. When Nick said "Do you even like Imogen?", I took that more as a callback to what Charlie told Nick about Ben not really liking him and only using him for his own purposes. So I think that question is fair without reading that it's an assumption that Ben is gay. Again, please correct me if I'm misunderstanding or missed something.
Agree to disagree on David. I know real life people who are lovely and have lovely parents and a dick sibling, so it definitely can happen. I think it's also reasonable that a key event in their lives may have affected Nick and Charlie differently; the divorce and, more importantly, their father moving away and rarely seeing them. I won't get into what happens later in the show/comics, but I think both Nick and David represent reasonable characterizations of people experiencing that kind of neglect in their life.
Do you mean the Imogen gathering was aggressive toward Nick or toward Imogen?
Also ultimately it doesn't super bother me that she blurted it out. The girl gave him multiple obvious avenues to do so, and Nick was certainly obligated to take them, but I can understand how it would drive her crazy when it's so obvious. Plus, she apologized immediately for not letting him say it first.
The heart emojis after the voice memo seemed like a natural fit to me. They don't just indicate love--in that context, it's clearly a sign of support. Emoji version of a hug (especially since the hug emoji is kind of weird)
Maybe it's just that I was particularly stuck on Oseman's acknowledgment of the parallels between Nick and Ben, but that is definitely PART of where his concern stems from. Like you say, he's totally justified to feel this way otherwise, but it's the unicorn in the room, and it's not NOT a part of his concern (since it's a fact about the situation that Imogen can't know, and which Nick can't tell her). Regardless, the fact Ben *takes* it that way is what really gets Nick self-reflecting on how much it's influencing his concern, which is the ultimate goal here.
And yeah, it's not that David being a dick is insane, but whereas in the books I didn't really slip on it at all, the Olivia Colman factor and the increased emphasis on Nick's relationship with his mother made it a case where they're really asking us to fill in a lot of gaps, and some part of me wanted a clearer scene establishing the origin of this particular toxicity. (I think the divorce is absolutely part of it, but not something the show really unpacks).
And aggressive toward Nick. And I agree that Imogen's response was fine, although my point with the heart emojis was their contrast from the VERY dark thoughts Charlie was actually having that were in no way reflected by them. It's not that hearts need to be wholly positive, but there's really no signal that he read that in a way that was at all traumatic.
On rewatch (yes, already, lol) only Charlie knows the gathering is for Nick to come out to Imogen. The rest aren't aware she's coming until she arrives. True, they're very gung-ho at that point, but they didn't really pressure him into it in the first place, and I think them thus being giddy is understandable.
Are Nick and Charlie the same age? I thought they were because they were in form together but why is Nick doing GCSE exams and Charlie isn't? A minor thing but it is confusing me a little.
Form merged years together - they’re a year apart. It’s why Nick wasn’t fully aware of what happened when Charlie came out, because it wasn’t in his orbit.
It will be interesting to see Ben evolve in the show especially as he plays a part in Solitaire, Oseman's first novel about Charlie's sister Tori (that was revised in 2020, the version recently released in the US), which eventually intersects with Heartstopper although I believe probably not until the next season? (I believe the hope is to do a Solitaire spin-off miniseries starring the actress who plays Tori...the tone is so different it wouldn't work as a season of Heartstopper, although Nick and Charlie do play a part.)
It's unclear—Oseman has talked about how she specifically created Isaac because she didn't want to complicate Aled's role in Solitaire (which I've not read), but I imagine the show's success has meant that she's likely going to be able to connect the universes if she so desires.
And I didn't know he had a part to play in Solitaire, so I may need to make that part of my hiatus reading.
Aled is actually from Radio Silence, the second novel! Idk where I remember them saying that there were hopes for a Solitaire adaptation. It’s definitely possible.
And yes, I originally read Solitaire when it was published in 2015 the first time (I was also a teenager), and I didn’t realize until like last year that he had been in it (and then I reread it in the newly released version and liked it a lot more this time around). It connects to how Ben was allegedly the one to out Charlie, which was even before Heartstopper starts. Solitaire takes place I believe after this season because it is set after (SPOILERS) Charlie’s hospital stay.
Right! Mixed up the two books.
I suppose never say never, but Netflix has said Ben won't be back in S3: https://www.netflix.com/tudum/articles/ben-heartstopper-exit-scene-interview
Edit: Spoilers for the rest of the season, and I'm also wondering now if I shouldn't have shared that at all, so apologies if I misstepped.
That’s okay, I’ll avoid reading the article because spoilers but I am now VERY curious!
EDIT, consider SPOILER WARNING: Okay, I definitely see how he won’t return and yes he goes to the girls school for Sixth Form which is how he ends up in Solitaire. There isn’t a departure from the original books as far as I can tell with that.
Full disclosure: I've already made it through seven of eight. I didn't set an alarm for 4:00 am or anything, but that's when I woke up, so...
Anyway, some unorganized thoughts:
* I buy David Nelson. Parents don't craft their children's personalities nearly as much as we imagine they do, and there are a lot of other influences out there trying to turn young men into dicks.
* One detail I enjoyed related to Charlie's issues with food is that he only fake pours milk onto his cereal.
* It's always a questionable choice when a straight ally cuts off a queer person's coming out by saying they already know (and TV does it a lot), but I gotta give Imogen a pass here. Nick and Charlie are not being subtle. This is jumping ahead a bit, but it kind of makes it hard to accept that coming out to his friends is something that weighs on Nick for multiple episodes worth of story.
* I agree that there are some issues with bi-erasure in how Nick deal with Ben, but given how bad he was with Charlie I think it's fair for Nick to be concerned for Imogen. That said, I'll have more to say about the forgivability of Ben later.
Overall extremely pleased with these first episodes. Holy crap, Netflix really upped the budget. Just that opening montage is so much more visually dynamic than the S1 opening montage. Not to criticize either, I loved them both. But stuff like that moving shot of Charlie texting while eating cereal... yowza!
I didn't read Nick's interactions with Ben as him assuming Ben is secretly gay, but if I'm wrong about that, please educate me. When Nick said "Do you even like Imogen?", I took that more as a callback to what Charlie told Nick about Ben not really liking him and only using him for his own purposes. So I think that question is fair without reading that it's an assumption that Ben is gay. Again, please correct me if I'm misunderstanding or missed something.
Agree to disagree on David. I know real life people who are lovely and have lovely parents and a dick sibling, so it definitely can happen. I think it's also reasonable that a key event in their lives may have affected Nick and Charlie differently; the divorce and, more importantly, their father moving away and rarely seeing them. I won't get into what happens later in the show/comics, but I think both Nick and David represent reasonable characterizations of people experiencing that kind of neglect in their life.
Do you mean the Imogen gathering was aggressive toward Nick or toward Imogen?
Also ultimately it doesn't super bother me that she blurted it out. The girl gave him multiple obvious avenues to do so, and Nick was certainly obligated to take them, but I can understand how it would drive her crazy when it's so obvious. Plus, she apologized immediately for not letting him say it first.
The heart emojis after the voice memo seemed like a natural fit to me. They don't just indicate love--in that context, it's clearly a sign of support. Emoji version of a hug (especially since the hug emoji is kind of weird)
Maybe it's just that I was particularly stuck on Oseman's acknowledgment of the parallels between Nick and Ben, but that is definitely PART of where his concern stems from. Like you say, he's totally justified to feel this way otherwise, but it's the unicorn in the room, and it's not NOT a part of his concern (since it's a fact about the situation that Imogen can't know, and which Nick can't tell her). Regardless, the fact Ben *takes* it that way is what really gets Nick self-reflecting on how much it's influencing his concern, which is the ultimate goal here.
And yeah, it's not that David being a dick is insane, but whereas in the books I didn't really slip on it at all, the Olivia Colman factor and the increased emphasis on Nick's relationship with his mother made it a case where they're really asking us to fill in a lot of gaps, and some part of me wanted a clearer scene establishing the origin of this particular toxicity. (I think the divorce is absolutely part of it, but not something the show really unpacks).
And aggressive toward Nick. And I agree that Imogen's response was fine, although my point with the heart emojis was their contrast from the VERY dark thoughts Charlie was actually having that were in no way reflected by them. It's not that hearts need to be wholly positive, but there's really no signal that he read that in a way that was at all traumatic.
On rewatch (yes, already, lol) only Charlie knows the gathering is for Nick to come out to Imogen. The rest aren't aware she's coming until she arrives. True, they're very gung-ho at that point, but they didn't really pressure him into it in the first place, and I think them thus being giddy is understandable.
Are Nick and Charlie the same age? I thought they were because they were in form together but why is Nick doing GCSE exams and Charlie isn't? A minor thing but it is confusing me a little.
Form merged years together - they’re a year apart. It’s why Nick wasn’t fully aware of what happened when Charlie came out, because it wasn’t in his orbit.
Ahh yes that was it, thanks Myles I figured I had forgotten something about S1..