I'm in a different position than many. I've read six of Herbert's books. I've read Dune the most, and I've seen all movie/television adaptations. The Villenueve films being my favorites.
That said, I haven't read any of his son's books or any on early lore. So much of this 1st episode was totally new to me. I think having a prequel about the origins of the Bene Gesserit is a fantastic idea, but I am quite worried about only having 6 episodes. I'm excited by the casting except for Travis Fimmel who I actively disliked in Raised By Wolves and seems quite similar here.
Unlike others, it never even occurred to me to compare this to Game of Thrones, House of Dragons, or Rings of Power. I find the world of Dune quite distinct from any of those, and I thought the art direction was quite good at making this world its own/recognizable to me. If anything, the closest recent similarity would be The Acolyte (Star Wars series).
I suspect there is much to be discovered and uncovered that was hinted about in this first episode. I have no clue why the burning happened to Kasha, for instance. Or really at all. But I'm okay with my confusion because it's the first episode. I did watch it with subtitles on which was quite helpful. I'm eager for what comes next.
I made it about halfway through, and ended up turning it off. I'm not the biggest fan of prequels in general, and this was hitting a bunch of notes that felt bad. Valya inventing The Voice felt totally shocking and unearned and more of a "Look! Here's the origin of This Thing!" rather than something that made any dramatic sense.
I was excited, but things weren't landing. Also, Olivia Williams was amazing, and part of me wondered if she should have been the Mother Superior, because she was just blowing me away.
I might go back and finish it, but it quickly managed to give me such Prequel Thing vibes that I was turned off. It's hard to reconcile that it was 10k years before Paul, but so much looked and felt the same.
It's fun that they made Emily Watson look pale and sweaty with those high full cheekbones. Evokes Stellan Skarsgard's Baron Harkonnen look.
I want read up a bit more on the lore, I'm curious how much of the sisterhood and the current house system existed during the AI reign. Did the develop the human spice tech in parallel to the AI rule or was that AI technology already?
I'm also curious about the whole 10,000 years thing. It's interesting to imagine their world as technologically stable or even stuck. Seeing some of the same technologies like shields 10,000 years earlier makes me wonder how their technology progresses. I guess some of it could be explained by adhering to tradition instead of being stuck. And of course I only see a small sliver of their tech in the movies and TV and technological progress isn't the point of these stories. Can't help wondering though.
I’ve also not read the books / am not up on the lore, so wondered about that. Even so, am finding it a hard to suspend my disbelief given just how rapidly societies seem to forget or neglect the lessons of the past (see the world’s current slide back toward fascism, less than a *century* after WWII), 10,000 years seems like a real stretch that barely anything would have evolved culturally if not technologically, especially across multiple planets. *Maybe* 2,000 or even 3,000 years I could go with, but 10K?
So what this television series calls "the war against the thinking machines" (which sounds and looks like something out of the Terminator franchise) Herbert calls "Butlerian Jihad" and is probably the central event in the entire timeline of Dune up until the events depicted in "Dune" (the movie or book) which happens something like 10,000-11,000 years later. (I think that's where the 10,148 years figure comes from). You may find AI annoying but in the Dune Universe they hated it so much they abolished not all technology but any type of technology which "attempted to counterfeit the human mind". So any type of computer with any type of CPU is prety much out the window. They make up for these limitations through a combination of super advanced mechanical engineering and mysticism bordering on magic. If you've seen the Villeneuve Dune movie there's a character in there who is a "Mentat" basically a human being pumped full of special drugs to the point that he's a "human computer". Anyway this is a log winded of saying that "society was stagnant on purpose"
I am, admittedly, very much a Dune novice. I’ve seen the movies, the puppet Dune show from Togetherness and listened to House of R coverage. But I’m struggling with the fact that this story takes place 10,000 years ago but all of the technology is virtually identical to that used in the movies. You’re telling me nothing changed or improved? Think of our own history a mere 500 years ago. It’s just taking me out of the story.
You could teach a whole class on exposition just by comparing the elegant, soulful opening of the first Villeneuve film to the clunky infodump we start this with. I found myself straining trying to follow the narration, and I’ve literally read the Dune Encyclopedia.
I'll echo others in saying that it felt weird the technology/fashion/etc all felt about the same as the movies 10,000 years in the future.
But aside from that, was anyone else frustrated by the score? Not that it was bad necessarily, it just felt over-bearing. It always seemed to be telling you how to feel instead of letting scenes breathe. I thought it was just going to be for the flashback but then it kept going - it was exhausting by the end.
I have a weird relationship to the Dune universe. I don't read a lot of fiction but I've read the book "Dune" multiple times and I've read the appendices with all the lore and gotten really into it. And I've seen both film versions. But I've never read any of the other books where Paul turns into a giant worm or whatever and really have no desire to go beyond what I know because I feel like the novel "Dune" is just perfect. I thought I'd check this out to see if I'd like other stuff than with the "IP",
My feelings about this premiere were pretty mixed. Most of it didn't really "feel like Dune" to me whatever that means. It really felt more like "Game of Thrones" like Myles said. A lot of the beginning even felt like part of one of the weirder Doctor Who episodes. I also agree that it was weird to start with a flashback at the beginning of a series that's a 10,000 year flashback and that there was no strong POV character.
Exploring the roots of the Bene Gesserit is an interesting idea. In answer to the "zealot" thing I think she's calling her a "zealot" because she wants to keep the religion pure and just be "truth sayers" while Emily Watson wants to actually take power through getting a Bene Gesserit on the throne so she's more practical and less about the purity of their religion is the idea.
The sequence where the characters go to some kind of night club or sex club or whatever is something that there's nothing like in any "Dune" thing I know of. Sex in this universe is usually presented in this brutal horrifying way like with Baron Harkonen's treatment of sex slaves etc.
Mark Strong was just in the Penguin and now he's in this? Is he trying to get his parking validated or something?
I thought the stuff around the marriage and the forbidden toy etc. was all pretty good. They weren't far from Butlerian Jihad so it's probably realistic that decadent aristocrat types would flout the rules a little bit etc.
The burning deaths at the end were gratuitously unpleasant. With the Gom Jabbar scene it was all i our imagination
Yeah like Myles I'm interested but I wouldn't say I'm totally sold on this series
I am curious on the Director and Casting Director's thought process on having Temu Matt Berry as the leader of House Richese
I'm in a different position than many. I've read six of Herbert's books. I've read Dune the most, and I've seen all movie/television adaptations. The Villenueve films being my favorites.
That said, I haven't read any of his son's books or any on early lore. So much of this 1st episode was totally new to me. I think having a prequel about the origins of the Bene Gesserit is a fantastic idea, but I am quite worried about only having 6 episodes. I'm excited by the casting except for Travis Fimmel who I actively disliked in Raised By Wolves and seems quite similar here.
Unlike others, it never even occurred to me to compare this to Game of Thrones, House of Dragons, or Rings of Power. I find the world of Dune quite distinct from any of those, and I thought the art direction was quite good at making this world its own/recognizable to me. If anything, the closest recent similarity would be The Acolyte (Star Wars series).
I suspect there is much to be discovered and uncovered that was hinted about in this first episode. I have no clue why the burning happened to Kasha, for instance. Or really at all. But I'm okay with my confusion because it's the first episode. I did watch it with subtitles on which was quite helpful. I'm eager for what comes next.
I made it about halfway through, and ended up turning it off. I'm not the biggest fan of prequels in general, and this was hitting a bunch of notes that felt bad. Valya inventing The Voice felt totally shocking and unearned and more of a "Look! Here's the origin of This Thing!" rather than something that made any dramatic sense.
I was excited, but things weren't landing. Also, Olivia Williams was amazing, and part of me wondered if she should have been the Mother Superior, because she was just blowing me away.
I might go back and finish it, but it quickly managed to give me such Prequel Thing vibes that I was turned off. It's hard to reconcile that it was 10k years before Paul, but so much looked and felt the same.
It's fun that they made Emily Watson look pale and sweaty with those high full cheekbones. Evokes Stellan Skarsgard's Baron Harkonnen look.
I want read up a bit more on the lore, I'm curious how much of the sisterhood and the current house system existed during the AI reign. Did the develop the human spice tech in parallel to the AI rule or was that AI technology already?
I'm also curious about the whole 10,000 years thing. It's interesting to imagine their world as technologically stable or even stuck. Seeing some of the same technologies like shields 10,000 years earlier makes me wonder how their technology progresses. I guess some of it could be explained by adhering to tradition instead of being stuck. And of course I only see a small sliver of their tech in the movies and TV and technological progress isn't the point of these stories. Can't help wondering though.
After a quick visit to Reddit I see that my question about technological progress is addressed in the books - that society was stagnant on purpose.
I’ve also not read the books / am not up on the lore, so wondered about that. Even so, am finding it a hard to suspend my disbelief given just how rapidly societies seem to forget or neglect the lessons of the past (see the world’s current slide back toward fascism, less than a *century* after WWII), 10,000 years seems like a real stretch that barely anything would have evolved culturally if not technologically, especially across multiple planets. *Maybe* 2,000 or even 3,000 years I could go with, but 10K?
So what this television series calls "the war against the thinking machines" (which sounds and looks like something out of the Terminator franchise) Herbert calls "Butlerian Jihad" and is probably the central event in the entire timeline of Dune up until the events depicted in "Dune" (the movie or book) which happens something like 10,000-11,000 years later. (I think that's where the 10,148 years figure comes from). You may find AI annoying but in the Dune Universe they hated it so much they abolished not all technology but any type of technology which "attempted to counterfeit the human mind". So any type of computer with any type of CPU is prety much out the window. They make up for these limitations through a combination of super advanced mechanical engineering and mysticism bordering on magic. If you've seen the Villeneuve Dune movie there's a character in there who is a "Mentat" basically a human being pumped full of special drugs to the point that he's a "human computer". Anyway this is a log winded of saying that "society was stagnant on purpose"
I should have read your comment before adding on but I am with you completely! 10,000 years is too much to swallow.
I am, admittedly, very much a Dune novice. I’ve seen the movies, the puppet Dune show from Togetherness and listened to House of R coverage. But I’m struggling with the fact that this story takes place 10,000 years ago but all of the technology is virtually identical to that used in the movies. You’re telling me nothing changed or improved? Think of our own history a mere 500 years ago. It’s just taking me out of the story.
Anyone else get a big Gob Bluth "I've made a huge mistake"vibes when Ynez first meets her child groom?
You could teach a whole class on exposition just by comparing the elegant, soulful opening of the first Villeneuve film to the clunky infodump we start this with. I found myself straining trying to follow the narration, and I’ve literally read the Dune Encyclopedia.
I'll echo others in saying that it felt weird the technology/fashion/etc all felt about the same as the movies 10,000 years in the future.
But aside from that, was anyone else frustrated by the score? Not that it was bad necessarily, it just felt over-bearing. It always seemed to be telling you how to feel instead of letting scenes breathe. I thought it was just going to be for the flashback but then it kept going - it was exhausting by the end.
I have a weird relationship to the Dune universe. I don't read a lot of fiction but I've read the book "Dune" multiple times and I've read the appendices with all the lore and gotten really into it. And I've seen both film versions. But I've never read any of the other books where Paul turns into a giant worm or whatever and really have no desire to go beyond what I know because I feel like the novel "Dune" is just perfect. I thought I'd check this out to see if I'd like other stuff than with the "IP",
My feelings about this premiere were pretty mixed. Most of it didn't really "feel like Dune" to me whatever that means. It really felt more like "Game of Thrones" like Myles said. A lot of the beginning even felt like part of one of the weirder Doctor Who episodes. I also agree that it was weird to start with a flashback at the beginning of a series that's a 10,000 year flashback and that there was no strong POV character.
Exploring the roots of the Bene Gesserit is an interesting idea. In answer to the "zealot" thing I think she's calling her a "zealot" because she wants to keep the religion pure and just be "truth sayers" while Emily Watson wants to actually take power through getting a Bene Gesserit on the throne so she's more practical and less about the purity of their religion is the idea.
The sequence where the characters go to some kind of night club or sex club or whatever is something that there's nothing like in any "Dune" thing I know of. Sex in this universe is usually presented in this brutal horrifying way like with Baron Harkonen's treatment of sex slaves etc.
Mark Strong was just in the Penguin and now he's in this? Is he trying to get his parking validated or something?
I thought the stuff around the marriage and the forbidden toy etc. was all pretty good. They weren't far from Butlerian Jihad so it's probably realistic that decadent aristocrat types would flout the rules a little bit etc.
The burning deaths at the end were gratuitously unpleasant. With the Gom Jabbar scene it was all i our imagination
Yeah like Myles I'm interested but I wouldn't say I'm totally sold on this series